User talk:Relyk/Archive 5

e-editor[edit]

I guess this means you're trustworthy now. Long probation period huh -Chieftain Alex 18:44, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

I still had to ask.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:10, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

If you ask me, Relyk is just too lazy to start an RfA. poke | talk 23:10, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

lolnerds. Come help us re-make PvX for GW2 at [1]. I have no ideas how to do any backend wiki shit and will probasbly just break everything.--TahiriVeila (talk) 00:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

It would be a fun exercise, but no one would use the wiki. In PvE, all the articles will turn into profession guides about what skills and traits you should bring or change in a dungeon.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:50, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

"01" vs "1"[edit]

Hi Relyk :) Thanks for your edits on the /dialogue pages! The archive template was a great addition. I was wondering if I could get your opinion, though. I see you changed the Kasmeer Season One /dialogue page to "1" instead of "01". My reasoning was that if the seasons hit double digits, the alphabetical organization will keep them in proper order ("season 01", "season 02" ... "season 10", "season 11" ... "season 20") on category pages instead of the numerical jumble you get without it ("season 1" ... "season 10", "season 11" ... "season 2", "season 20"). I've also considered that maybe wiki category pages sort numbers differently than I'm used to ^^; Which you should definitely let me know about. I know it may be a bit optimistic to think the seasons might go that long, so I wanted to see what you thought before I started rolling this out further. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kymtastic (talk • contribs) at 00:08, 4 August 2014‎ (UTC).

I assume it sorts in lexicographical order rather than alphabetical then. You can add a key to the category to sort it how you want: [[Category:Dialogue subpages|Kasmeer Meade/dialogue/season 01]]. Remember to sign comments with ~~~~ or the signature button :)--Relyk ~ talk < 00:24, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I don’t think we need to worry about Living World seasons 10+ at this moment. So we should focus on the current season and just call it “season 1” and “season 2” for now :) poke | talk 01:46, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice/knowledge, guys :) Sorry for the unsigned, I was in a weekend caffeine haze! -Kymtastic (talk) 15:55, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Move without redirect/Archiving Questions[edit]

Sorry to bug you again... I guess you've picked up a stray for kindly answering my questions :\ When you moved Kasmeer Meade/dialogue/season 1 you did it in a way that didn't leave a redirect. As I understand it, if I used the "move" button at the top of an article, it automagically makes a redirect -- so I'm assuming you used modly or other wiki magic I'm unfamiliar with. I ask because there is "Marjory Delaqua/dialogue/season 01" to move to "season 1" as well and I'm afraid of leaving a redirect that you may not want me to leave. I don't want you to do my work for me (unless it IS mod magic and then I apologize), just let me know how you'd like it done and I will carry out your wishes.

I'd also like some advice on using "move" on the /dialogue pages before I get any further, because I know copy and paste is non-ideal in preserving history and talk pages. If I use "move" and the move redirects to /dialogue/season 1, will I be able to re-create the main /dialogue page on top of it again, thus erasing the redirect? I assume so, but you know what they say about assuming. Thank you :) -Kymtastic (talk) 15:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Move without redirect is part of Help:Extended editor privileges and the primary reason I asked for them two weeks ago. Without that, the process is the same except you tag the redirect for speedy deletion and an admin will delete it eventually.

That's what you do and is how you archive talk pages: Move the current page to an archive to keep the page history, then replace the redirect with current content.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:44, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

“I'm afraid of leaving a redirect that you may not want me to leave” – Please don’t be. Keeping redirects is perfectly fine and usually desired (thus it’s the default behavior). And even if the redirect is not needed, it doesn’t exactly hurt, so don’t worry about it too much :) poke | talk 22:42, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

First[edit]

04:16, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I think this is the first first since I started contributing.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Question about Semantic MediaWiki form[edit]

Hi Relyk,

Left a question about a Semantic MediaWiki form that you may have worked on: Form_talk:Vendor_query

Thanks!

--Stephane Lo Presti talk 22:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

level rewards[edit]

Hi, you have removed the cleanup label I put on Level but you left the text about the duplicate information and didn't change the table. It should either be limited to a little information that doesn't include rewards, or be compeltely replaced with the table on Level rewards (in the later case, the level rewards page would be removed). What did you want to do ? (imho keeping the reward table on a separate page, just like for Achievement rewards, is better) Eowin (talk) 18:30, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

There's already an {{out of date}} tag on the page, which implies the page needs to be cleaned up. I removed the tag because it was redundant.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:32, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Gavros blah blah[edit]

Interested in why you created a new page instead of moving the existing one. It's obviously the same task, just reworked. —Dr Ishmael 20:15, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I haven't checked yet if only the name was changed, but yeah, moving would've been better...--Relyk ~ talk < 20:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Well if you don't have the rest of the new information, then I wouldn't start copying the old info over to new pages anyway. :P Moving the page would at least make it clear why the info is the same (and tagging it as "out of date" of course). —Dr Ishmael

20:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Unless they are exactly the same, I'm still inclined to keep the old page?--Relyk ~ talk < 20:25, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Looks exactly the same except some changes to npc dialogue (back buttons) and vendor info, unless those were before the patch.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

How to create in-game description tables?[edit]

Thank you for creating those couple Ineffable pages, really helped me figure out all the wiki formatting and such. Although I have another question. How do I create those imbedded quote boxes and such at the start of pages with the description and such? Specifically, not the description bit (as none of the items seem to have one), but the upgrade slots and whatnot. it doesn't seem to be in the page, but I see you did something in the history summary. Could you teach me how to make those? I would like to create these pages with the same quality standard as the rest of the wiki. Dukeplatypus (talk) 03:09, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Also, in my trial-and-error, I created some pages that are not needed anymore and may confusion to those searching for similar pages. Can you instruct me on how to tag pages, specifically for deletion, or who to contact so they can tag them?

The upgrade slot is usually generated automatically when you define a description. Add the "Double-click to select stats." as the description. If it's an issue elsewhere, uslot = y will work. To tag a page for deletion, add {{delete|<reason goes here>}} to the top of the page (above the infobox). An admmin will come around to clean it up.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:20, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Champ Boxes[edit]

If you're curious: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Asuka/ChampBoxes Asuka (talk) 07:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, wrong user :DAsuka (talk) 13:37, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Veteran pages[edit]

I just noticed you create alot of pages about vet ranked npcs but you usually do not provide information other than its location and infobox without putting a stub template on it.

I haven't made any vet pages recently? Putting stub templates isn't required and can be added later by someone else if necessary.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

It's the passive-aggressive IP, Relyk. He gone now. --Ventriloquist 14:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

What if I wanted to read that obscenity.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:52, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

priory basement[edit]

Hey, I just created the area page for DP basement. I thought it would be nice to have a list of the books and other objects (clock, painting, etc) and I left a space for that. If you want to start a list with any of the books you have created pages for, that would be awesome! (Clarifying I noticed you entered at least one book around the same time I was on. Am writing this from my kindle, thus telegraphed speech and not properly signed comment.) -- Adelas

Wow[edit]

Loved this! – Valento ^msg 16:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

RE: Form link[edit]

No we don't like those empty parameters at all. Per User talk:Louise#Recent edits, ishmael ran a bot to remove them last time someone legit used the edit with form link. --Chieftain Alex 18:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

15 mins later... --Ventriloquist 19:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

"dump parameters" means removing parameters to me, not adding them in. Linking to the anon contributions didn't help clarify what you meant >.>--Relyk ~ talk < 01:57, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Alex's settings for Is historical[edit]

The way we use that property, we're actually filtering for things that are current, rather than filtering out things that were current but are now gone. A better implementation would have been to name the property "Is current" and then filter for Is current::Y. So I agree with how Alex set those up - we only want to include current content in automated query output, which means excluding both past and future content. —Dr Ishmael 15:54, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

True, we need have logic to query for future content only on future pages. That's the purpose of Property:Has availability for that kind of filtering. It would be a good time to implement that logic since the property is set up. That allows us to set relations between future content without interfering with current content. We just don't want people making pages for future content that involve semantic templates and then have the templates not work because it has to ignore future content.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:59, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

For queries (especially forms), the acceptance of multiple possible values is much easier to use a boolean property. True the property is named wrongly, but I don't agree with including unimplemented or future content in regular queries. -Chieftain Alex

20:41, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:55, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

"property is named wrongly" - if I thought that renaming "Is historical" to "Is current" + then reversing all of the booleans was a sensible idea then i would do it. I cba, therefore I left it with the existing name, and used booleans instead of the multiple strings that you would favor.
"I don't agree with including unimplemented or future content in regular queries" - I want to revert your changes to Template:Area infobox and Template:Event infobox such that if I ask for zones excluding historical content (i.e. I want only current ones), then I don't get unimplemented + future zones in the results.

-Chieftain Alex

22:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

That's what I was saying? I'm not sure what you mean by multiple strings. If you mean having multiple boolean properties instead of a single identifying string, those properties would be redundant since they are mutually exclusive with each other.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Alex was referring to Has availability, I think. —Dr Ishmael

22:30, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Reverts on Ferghen and Grechen[edit]

I was trying to make a consistency. They are the same character in lore. Just like The Last King of Orr, Apatia (who has 3 names iirc), Suspicious Figure; we don't separate those, because they're the same NPC under new name and appearance. Havroun Grechen always had the info for her risen counterpart on that page. I don't think we should separate just because different names. After all, Steward Gixx shows up as that and just "Gixx" several times (we also see other prominent figures, such as Rytlock, with various names ranging from, in Rytlock's case: Rytlock, Rytlock Brimstone, Tribune Brimstone, and Tribune Rytlock Brimstone). This is why I merged those four articles into two. Konig 20:58, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Putting multiple instances of an NPC on the same page is only useful to prevent redundancy in the articles. The undead versions of the NPCs are differentiated by the name, appearance, race, being hostile, and not be associated with Pact, and the missions/events associated with the NPC. A similar approach was taken with Prince Rurik and Undead Prince Rurik.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:04, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the reason why Rurik was separated was because it was a super-mega-spoiler for the plot. If the mentors came back as risen, then those would be separated for the same reason. But Togo as alive in BMP, alive in Factions, and as a ghost in Factions (for one example) were the same article. Typically, when an NPC has multiple races/affiliations - even if at different points - on GWW they were placed in different slots on the infobox; GW2W doesn't have that, so we just slap a manual category on the least important (currently). And we'd include whatever info is needed to point out the differences on the article. Konig 00:14, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Another example: when WiK came out and we have gww:Confessor Isaiah and gww:Justiciar Isaiah, the question wasn't "are these two NPCs different enough?" but "is putting them on the same page too spoilery?" GW2W could do it differently, but thus far, it really hasn't except in cases where your argument doesn't hold true (e.g., Deborah and Crusader Deborah; Corporal Beirne and Tactician Beirne - those two should get merged articles, imo, and would have done it if you didn't spark this :P). Konig 00:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Spoilers have nothing to do with having separate NPC articles, so that seems irrelevant here. I don't see any comments about splitting the Rurik pages because of spoilers unless that discussion took place elsewhere. The discussion you linked to on Confessor Isaiah supports keeping the articles separate, the only mention of spoilers was the first comment. I dislike the practice of sticking all versions of what we consider the same NPC on one page for lore purposes. It creates confusion on what version of the NPC appears where that the article then has to explain in long lists like with Captain Ellen Kiel. I'd prefer providing an overview on the current version of the NPC on the "timeline" and refer back to previous instances of the NPC on more specific involvement for the given location.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

"Spoilers have nothing to do with having separate NPC articles" Except that is the reason why Rurik has 2 articles in GW1. It was brought up during WiK, and the discussion didn't happen on Isaiah's pages but gww:Talk:High Inquisitor Toriimo. Bringing Rurik (and others, such as gww:Goddess of Truth) up was a short part of the discussion but it boiled down to: "those are separated because they're huge spoilers". But all other shared named NPCs are merged because they're not huge spoilers. But that's GWW. GW2W doesn't have a distinct method, but until this just now, there hasn't been cause for separation and standard practice on more famous (or infamous) characters have been "keep to one page". If these were the mentors or DE or something, I'd vote to keep them separate. But they're not major characters. Konig 01:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Konig concerning Ferghen, Grechen, Deborah and Beirne, they are not crucial characters to the overall GW2 story and I don't think they deserve two pages because, for example, Beirne went from a Corporal in the Seraph to a Tactician in the Vigil. I think we should stick a spoiler tag on the page telling that he joined the Vigil to fight the Risen. Louise 2:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Again, I don't care how the NPC are related to spoilers or the story. If the NPC differs by more than name and appearance, where other properties like location, race, level, or organization are significant to the player, we want to differentiate between the NPC being encountered. Ferghen is clear to me because one instance of the NPC is the alive version in a set of locations with all the same properties and then a dead version that is completely different from the live version.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Main point is the end, Relyk. But let me reword it: Do we go with your preference, or do we go with the standard practice? While these NPCs may be distinctly different, they are so for less than 5 minutes of gameplay (excluding wtfterrible gaming skills or afk'ing) with so little relevance that by theoretical statistics only 1 in 15 players will know the difference for them. If you manage to make the standard practice match your preference then I won't argue.

In the end, I think it's smoother to have a single article. Fewer clicking, fewer links, fewer articles, and gives the whole story in a single page. Konig 05:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I like single pages for NPCs like Ellen Kiel and Hobotron. The single article approach is easier for users to add and edit information on incremental differences. The only drawbacks are the redundancy in locations and dialogue subpages and navigations issues on the pages. The approach is far less useful for NPCs that only have a couple distinct appearances. I'm not against merging the pages if people like it that way, but I don't find arguments involving lore and spoiler particularly convincing.--Relyk ~ talk < 11:13, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Given that Havroun Grechen already had the risen details on that page so that all I had to do was add a category:risen to it and redirect the other, I'm going to say that people do prefer it that way. If it comes up again, then we just have to remember these - and other - cases. Konig 18:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

If you actually want to handle it correctly, the infobox needs to allow multiple races for the same NPC instead of bypasses it by adding the category directly.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I would if I knew how. But I've brought that up before and it seems no one did anything about it. Konig 19:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Newsletter[edit]

Would it be possible to remind people to use the comments line when editing. It seems to be less used than it was before. --Spionida (talk) 22:45, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't see why, the wiki doesn't require users to leave an edit summary. You can add something if you want to.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, just a thought. I is useful if they do, but if it's thought unimportant. Thanks anyways :) --Spionida (talk) 23:40, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not that we think it's unimportant, rather we see it as an unnecessary hurdle for rookie editors. Anything that says "you must fill in this field" after you submit a form (like the edit form) increases the likelihood that the user will not complete the process. For the wiki, that means it makes it more unlikely for readers to become editors, and we don't want that. —Dr Ishmael

03:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, sure, that's fine. I was not suggesting a "You MUST complete the comment line", rather ""Please consider filling in the comment line when editing. It's easier for those reviewing the edits." But if something like that is too strong, OK. --Spionida (talk) 03:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I was commenting in the thread of "the wiki doesn't require" an edit summary, I didn't make that context clear. Friendly reminders to somewhat-established editors about edit summaries are never a bad thing. —Dr Ishmael

13:42, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

To clarify more, someone will smack you around with a large trout if you don't leave an edit summary. And that someone is Felix. He has all those fish lying around.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:24, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll watch for those fish. --Spionida (talk) 02:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

gimme a minute[edit]

can't debug if we're both doing it -Chieftain Alex 21:20, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm checking the newline whitespacing :(--Relyk ~ talk < 21:22, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

re:[edit]

Adding a comma to the end of the input allows #arraymap to strip the ) from the final record entry, since it's using ), as the delimiter. That way the inner code just has to split each record on ( and not worry about vestigial )es. —Dr Ishmael 04:34, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Contained in[edit]

The template looks weird now. It adds two columns in unnecessary places and creates unusually large whitespace in unnecessary places. I can't fix it with my toddler template skills, so it's up to you buddy. —Ventriloquist 13:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Totally agree with Ventriloquist on this one, I encountered a page the other day (1920 wide monitor) and thought "wtf is that bullet point doing under the infobox". I'm reverting it for now, though I did try a fix to make it look ok with two columns, but putting the two column ul element inside a div with display:inline-block makes the bullets wrap into the text/icons... similarly ugly for a fixed width column. -Chieftain Alex

19:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

That's too bad, I really liked two columns on super long acquisition pages. —Ventriloquist 20:15, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

hmmm, we could design a template for better column formatting.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Did a further bit of testing in User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox3. Solution F is best I reckon. (chieftain sig images are fake infoboxes) -Chieftain Alex

23:33, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Also, it might be worth making the template count the results before doing the data, and if it is <(2*number of columns) then use 1 column, else however many columns you were intending to use. -Chieftain Alex

23:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

That is better; it won't look odd with icons, right? Since your examples use the category lookup thing. —Ventriloquist 12:14, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. I don't think we would use more than two columns (I hate doing a preliminary query for count technique for logic). If there is that many items, I'd rather link to the semantic results and provide more details. The css works in the intro and outro parameters too.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:25, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

SMW oltree format[edit]

I can't remember where it was covered the last time this format cropped up, but I've used it on User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox4#crap example. Any way to avoid using a category in the query + still get nested results? -Chieftain Alex 11:54, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh right. Ishmael's talk page of course. -Chieftain Alex

11:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

It's not hard to generate: User:Relyk/SMW/locationtree. The wiki dies if we try to do all the zones on one page unfortunately :(--Relyk ~ talk < 07:05, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Currency exchange Quotation[edit]

Why remove it from Currency exchange (in revision as of 19:49, 2 June 2015)? I am under the impression that it is common practice to lead with a relevant quotation. ~ 1Maven (talk) 22:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

We waste the reader's time. Quotations can be useful for characters or lore for providing an official description. They are overused even in those cases. The quotation isn't adding any useful or interesting information, simply repeating what the summary says.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:39, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Originally, quotations would only be used to quote official descriptions - such as manuals - that describe the article topic (and, naturally, not from it); it was expanded during early reveals to add in the once-existing-but-no-more loading screen descriptions, so a few zones/instances have such to them. The format is also used to quote tooltips for skills, traits, and items. User:Santax began using them to add in 'flavor text' to NPC articles, often irrelevant and pointless lines. Other players began changing them to something that is actually beneficial to the reader (e.g., something that describes the subject of the article).

They are, however, not the norm or common practice, especially with broad mechanic articles. The only mechanic articles that should utilize them are the aforementioned item, skill, and trait articles. Konig 23:38, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

area infobox bot request[edit]

Hi Relyk, you made a request on Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Bots#Requests_and_discussion which I can do, however I'd like to see some reasoning before I go and replace the emdashes with dashes. A responce in either place would be great. -Chieftain Alex 15:25, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Pfft[edit]

That artichoke pun was good and you know it. —Ventriloquist 15:48, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Ground targeted skills and SMW[edit]

Hey, Relyk! So, I'm trying to get a SMW query to return a list of skills with ground targeting (by looking up "Is ground targeted" property) and grouping them into 4 sections at this moment: weapon skills, healing skills, utility skills, and elite skills. However I'm sure things can be optimized, and I'm missing some stuff. Would you mind taking a look at this stuff when you have time? If you want to experiment and tweak the query in my page there's absolutely no problem. ^^ – Valento ^msg 15:08, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't too hard... there were a few unset property values that you needed which i've gone and set with {{skill infobox}}. I've addressed each of the bullets. -Chieftain Alex

16:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Alex! ^^ – Valento ^msg 18:44, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

1 probably more efficient, albeit less user friendly as a manual template, to query for the game icon and canonical name with the query (i.e. your sandbox) rather than the result template. -Chieftain Alex

22:38, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

blanking spam[edit]

you knew, or at least were asked a while back (by Auron I think...) not to blank vandal pages... -Chieftain Alex 22:34, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I was asked not to tag the talk pages created by spammers for deletion and instead blank them. I'll go back to tagging them if you are going to bug me about it.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:03, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Poor, Relyk. Everyone is bugging him lately. >.> – Valento ^msg 01:14, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Vendor table header[edit]

Hi Relyk. should be safe - was there a particular reason for adding that? I'd kind of prefer if it didn't since that edit prevents tagging extra columns on the end. I just found an example where it broke something, so I would like to know your logic before I think about changing it back. -Chieftain Alex 18:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

It was to fix tables breaking on {{service table}} while using vendor table header because of the differences in the row formats iirc.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:53, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

this was because you had a bunch of example VTRs in your userspace. -Chieftain Alex

08:28, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, should always clean up leftover calls to the template as best practice. Switch the properties to test properties to avoid overlap.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:29, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

I did comment out the userspace examples. Where are the other template calls? :(--Relyk ~ talk < 01:31, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Practices and Processes help[edit]

Historical location information[edit]

You were on helper list and also commented on my user page, so hopefully you don't mind me asking a question. My question concerns the page Laranthir of the Wild. Under the Locations section of that page, there is the subsection, historical. I don't really see how a historical location would be appropriate to keep on a page (except in trivia/notes section). My reasoning is that the purpose of the location section to me is for you to know where to find the NPC. Where he was in the past doesn't matter. It's a neat fact, but doesn't matter. So are historical locations usually kept like this? Also kept in location paramater? (Not trying to voice complaint or invoke change. Just an honest question of whether or not this is best) Thanks Veloncia2 (talk) 22:05, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Locations in the infobox should only be current locations - infobox places sometimes appear in automated queries on other pages (this is particularly true for NPCs that sell things, where the NPC location pops up on each item page).

There aren't any formal rules on the location section content, but we have been documenting historical dialogue & locations for the old living world stuff. I'd leave any existing "historical locations" bits as they currently are, but don't worry about adding them to any NPCs that might be missing old locations. -A.N.OtherUser 86.131.74.34 23:48, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't like listing historical locations because they are already documented in the page history. If the the NPC no longer exists, then the whole page would be historical and the section redundant. There hasn't been a clear discussion on handling historical information like this, so we haven't decided whether to keep a subsection or not. Historical dialogue has to be documented because it has lore implications and may referenced elsewhere. Where the NPC used to be located is not so useful.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

NPC organization of Maguuma[edit]

Twice now I have seen an NPC who has the organization of Maguuma. Is this something that is accepted? It seems a bit broad. Ex. Ehrgen Cragstrider. Veloncia2 (talk) 00:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Maguuma is the term User:Santax switched to for the Maguuma tribe of centaurs. We are using the same semantics as Harathi. I would like to append "tribe" to the organization name because the terms end up being broad, but it's not a big deal overall.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Daily[edit]

Widget:Daily achievements. They need to fix the API, and then I might fix the achi names. -86.131.79.9 00:15, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

That shouldn't be hard, you pull the achievement objects with /v2/achievement?id=<id>. ~~They don't have support for a comma-separated list of ids so ~10 calls is pretty ugly.~~ It's under /v2/achievements instead (duh). I don't think we will add it to the main page until the api is stable anyways.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:24, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/achievements?page=0 gets all current achievements in one call. —Dr Ishmael

01:33, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

They're still the wrong day's achievements right? -Chieftain Alex

15:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

If snark was banworthy[edit]

Your ass would be grass 98.220.60.237 02:58, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

(That was me but it seems way more sinister coming from an anon) - Felix Omni 02:58, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

That's because you moderate users, not snark.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:33, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Nostalgia[edit]

Like suggested on my talk page, here is my mod about cartography : here on Filedropper. If you ever feel like scrapping again or just want to see all the fog that can/could be uncovered in the game ;).--Ruine Eternelle (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Property:Has item rarity = None?[edit]

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. Every item has an assigned rarity. —Dr Ishmael 02:23, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Someone added a default value in default item parameter. Remove it then?--Relyk ~ talk < 02:27, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Let's make it "Unknown" (see my edit summary for reasoning) and leave it as an invalid SMW value. The entire point of that #default is to flag the items that don't have their rarity specified, so you can find them via queries like {{#ask:[[Has improper value for::Has item rarity}}. —Dr Ishmael

02:33, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I typically use None for indicating no value. I'd like to reserve Unknown to explicity raise the flag for improper values then. I've had issues troubleshooting improper values before and it would probably help indentify the problem.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:00, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, my point here is that "no value" is typically a valid state for something to be in. The original "invalid value" implies that some kind of value was given, and while that was true until I removed the #if block just now, I don't think that's the only invalid state we should be capturing.

On the other hand, "unknown" covers both the state of a value being given but that value being invalid, and the state of having no value given at all. In both cases, the end result is that we still don't know the actual rarity of the item, and it needs to be fixed. —Dr Ishmael

13:43, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

problem with stats?[edit]

Hi!

I just created 2 articles concerning 2 trinkets available via achievements : Janthir's Gaze and Sun, Moon, and Stars. They both have marauder stats, so I put in the description "prefix = marauder".

Problem : the stats shown are :

Power : 108
Precision : 108
Vitality : 59
Ferocity : 59

While the stats shown ingame are :

Power : 133
Precision : 133
Vitality : 71
Ferocity : 71

I thought maybe the marauder stats shown are what can be seen in pvp (so maybe Exotic stats instead of ascended). Do you know what could be wrong? How could I change that?

Ascended trinkets do their own thing in terms of stats since they combine stats from what would usually be an upgrade slot + the underlying item. Use at marauder ("at" stands for "ascended trinket"). -Chieftain Alex

16:01, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

You would think the template would know that if you specify it's an ascended trinket. I might fix it later.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:42, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Collections templates[edit]

I've been doing a lot of studying of your work on the achievements templates. The reason is, I feel we need separate Collections templates and I was going to write those. As the collections are actual items and the rest of the achievements are just that (achievements), the current achievement templates have no way of collecting and organizing items of a particular collection into one set or group. It appears people have been editing the item_infoboxes on some items' pages to display what collection the item belongs to, and, while the text "Collection = Frostfang 1: The Experimental Axe" (or similar text) displays in the infobox, the infobox doesn't appear to have any code to set a property for this. Thusly, the achievement tables don't have any code to use on the collection pages to auto-create a standardized table based off of this theoretical property. People are just hard coding this data onto each individual page, and I feel we can create a template for this. With the release of HoT, many of the Legendary Weapons collection items have their own unique text ("Hint text") that there is no property for. Lastly, while many achievements have prerequisites, only collection-style achievements actually require an item-specific unlock. This isn't handled anywhere in the achievement tables. What are your thoughts? Do you think a project like this would be best completed by creating separate templates, or adding new code to the existing achievement templates to better specifically handle the differences of collections? ~Mervil 09:16, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

{{default item parameter}} sets Property:Is part of collection along with all the other generic item properties. There are a couple other templates that set properties in the infobox like {{infobox status}} too.

Collections are still achievements. Having a different template for collections will confuse users and editors alike. More importantly, generating a list of items for a collection isn't useful to users. We need to supply information about acquiring the collection items in a walkthrough and users want to access all that information at once since all the items are required for the collection. The main purpose of putting achievements in subobjects and table-row format is to reduce space. Lists of items like collections really aren't feasible that way. For example, the way we manage achievement tiers is bad enough.

The "Hint text" for collection achievements was discussed somewhere. I believe the discussion was the hint text is a property associated with the collection achievement, not the item. You then simple look up the collection the item is part of to generate the hint text for that achievement.

The best solution is to keep the the collection parameter in {{item infobox}} and have it as multi-valued as an item can belong to multiple achievements. Item-specific unlocks aren't a problem, it can go in the same prerequisite parameter on {{achievement table row}} as the unlock condition is unique afaik. We can figure out whether the value is an achievement or item. I don't think we put collection-unlock items in their own category yet.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Shark Fin[edit]

Do you have any extra information to contribute about the Shark Fin, such as drop locations? If so, could you add to Talk:Shark Fin? Thanks --TerrorBite (talk) 03:57, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Nope--Relyk ~ talk < 05:17, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Linking asc salvaging to drops[edit]

So, recently I saw a question on reddit asking about ascended salvaging results, specifically if you could get crafting components from salvaging equipment. Having checked the wiki prior, I looked on the salvage kit page & did not see it on the latest revision. So, using this as a starting point, here is the progression of my search:

Salvage (first link on Ascended Salvage Kit)
- #By_Item_Quality
  - "Ascended items can produce Balls of Dark Energy, Stabilizing Matrices, and other items unique to the equipment type." - well, that's pretty useless.
- #Ascended_Equipment (next section on page)
  - "Ascended equipment can be salvaged for Balls of Dark Energy, Stabilizing Matrices, and other items used in crafting." - this is so general as to be useless.
Ascended (third link) REDIRECT to Ascended_equipment
- #Salvaging
  - "Salvaging equipment grants unique crafting materials and items used in the crafting of ascended and legendary equipment. Ascended equipment can be salvaged using special salvage kits:" - this is even less useful than the last two answers.
Salvage_Kit
- Nothing of use, only relevant breadcrumbs are links back to Ascended_Salvage_Kit/Tool
Stabilizing_Matrix
- #Salvaged_From
  - Ascended_Rings REDIRECT to Ascended_Trinket#Rings
    - "Salvages into Ball of Dark Energy.png Ball of Dark Energy Agony Infusion.png +1 Agony Infusion (5-9) Vision Crystal.png Vision Crystal Salvaged Excellence.png Salvaged Excellence"" - okay now we're getting somewhere. But it doesn't answer the question of what you get from salvaging ascended armor/weapons/accessories/backpack/etc.
Dark_Energy
- #Salvaged_from
  - Ascended_Armor
    - #Salvages_into
      - "Ascended armor can be salvaged using Ascended Salvage Tools and Ascended Salvage Kits." - this was what I found at the time of search, has since been changed.
        Me: well, this search is fruitless *links old version of salvage kit page to the person on reddit*
      - "Ball of Dark Energy Vision Crystal Lesser Vision Crystal Ascended Insignia Salvaged Greatness"

Okay, I've finally found the answer to the original question. (Note: not true when I initially checked) How? By following breadcrumbs about a salvage result > salvage result article > salvaged from section > equipment article > salvaged into section. Maybe other people would skip straight to the Ascended_Armor article, but perhaps I want to know about other salvage results. Any general links about salvaging or ascended equipment yielded no useful results - some variation of "you can salvage ascended equipment for (unspecific) things using ascended salvage kits". So, what's my point here? Finding the ascended salvage results should be intuitive.

Issues // proposals:

Salvaging page does not indicate results // add an ascended salvaging subpage/section, add https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Ascended_Salvage_Kit&oldid=1112493#Salvaging_results
// On ascended salvage kit/tool page, add to #Notes that each type of ascended equipment will salvage for different things, then list every type of equipment, same as the page on Dark_Energy
Likelihood of drops not indicated // I know that you typically link to drop rate research, but it could be noted that some (matrices, dark energy) are guaranteed salvages, while the others are not

Rambling rant here - tl;dr I found it quite frustrating on my first pass that the salvage results information was gone & every page I visited provided no useful information. The original method was intuitive to me, and consolidated all salvage results in a central, reference-able location. TehAnonymous (talk) 17:36, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I added Salvage#Ascended equipment after I saw the issue come up. The section needs to be expanded to explain how ascended salvaging works. that should include information about the salvage kits, item subtypes, and salvage drops. I discussed this on User talk:Hekela for how we organize the salvage research pages.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

status = hot vs 'heart of thorns content' template[edit]

Hiya,

The conversation was started on my talk page earlier but I figured I'd duplicate my question here for both visibility and confirmation. Given that |status = hot is meant to be placeholder until a proper solution is implemented, am I to understand that {{Heart of Thorns content}} is the proper solution? And if so, do we want to go through all existing pages with |status = hot and swap those to the right template? I've got a bot ready to go if the answer is yes :D. -Darqam (talk) 16:06, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Don't use the bot to do this - the task would be a waste of time + edits. -Chieftain Alex

16:32, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Alex: lol.

@Darqam: No, we don't have a solution yet. The problem we are actually addressing is what portion of the game the content is restricted to. We will need to address this for any future expansions. Because all content is implicitly part of the core game, we need to identify pages restricted to specific expansions.

Using a tag template is a basic solution for saying "This is part of Heart of Thorns" but is pretty terrible as a solution. The notice tag is bulky. Discussion is to put a marker somewhere in the top right corner, which is what {{Heart of Thorns content}} would be converted to (hence the placeholder).

This is something that should be handled in the infobox as this is where we identify all our general properties. While the infobox can use guildwarswiki-style and identify the campaign as a value in the infobox, there is plenty of content that doesn't use an infobox to identify the content it belongs to. That's why I find a marker somewhere on the page more appealing as it will be consistent across pages and infoboxes simply need to handle displaying it. This would also address future expansions--Relyk ~ talk < 16:36, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I'll leave the subject be until everyone is happy with a solution. I'll stick my head into the conversation once it get's there. -Darqam (talk) 17:12, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

You'll be waiting a long time since discussion stopped after the release of Heart of Thorns. I'm just waiting until someone bothers to start looking at it again.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:36, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

New nourishment template[edit]

Hi Relyk, I was wondering whether you were still working on the updated template. I linked to the one on your user space for one of the fireworks and that's not ideal.. You mentioned making the name more generic. Maybe buff or booster? Also, there's an extra space where the time is given for the buff but I don't know how to fix that. Just checking up since I wasn't sure what to do with it and it's been a while. Seylan (talk) 20:47, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Have an example of what ideal looks? The extra space is easy to fix.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I just meant it's awkward to use user space templates for main space articles. Aside from the extra space I didn't see any issues with formatting. However, I included extra text in the infobox after the template which wasn't part of the effect description, but which would go after it when looking at the item in-game; that text isn't part of the effect itself. I'm not sure if this should be handled a different way. Seylan (talk) 23:30, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

We don't allow userspace templates in the mainspace :P There might be some backwards compatibility issues to address before replacing {{nourishment}} though.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:59, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm... I wasn't thinking of completely replacing the nourishment templates as they remain appropriate for food and utilities which still remain the majority of those effects. My idea was to just have a new template for the few odd cases that have been added for now which use the Nourishment format but don't provide a buff in that class. Seylan (talk) 00:36, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

It's the same format, there's nothing special about nourishments in particular. I would call it {{item effect}} or something.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:43, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I'll leave it up to your tinkerer judgement as this isn't an area of expertise for me :p Seylan (talk) 00:48, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't know, seems like you already have it figured out. I just write shitty templates.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:03, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

OK, I copied pasted out your sandbox contents into a template called item effect and I'll use it for the fireworks. I had a go at uh... some form of documentation. Aside from the space before the effect duration i.e. ( 5 m), I noticed the effect icon - while it displays the correct icon it should link to the actual effect. Seylan (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Good thing we have {{effect icon}} for effect icons (I tend to plan ahead and implement stuff like that)--Relyk ~ talk < 01:25, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Random[edit]

Your User:Relyk/Epically awesome quotes makes me giggle. Which is bad because I'm at work, but I can't help it. Thank you for creating it. That is all. - Do_odleplex 21:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Can you move[edit]

Talk:Storm Top to Storm_Top#Area_10? The guy put it in the wrong place and created the talk page by accident. Also how do you move parts of page to other pages, like you did on Chieften Alex's page when I put that question in the wrong spot? Do you just copy paste or is that something related to being and extended editor? =o - Do_odleplex 00:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

You aren't moving the talk page to a different talk page, so you would leave it there. The text doesn't hurt anyone sitting on a talk page. For moving talk page sections with {{moved}}, it's copypaste. I meant to fix that when I saw it earlier, but it's something you can easily do yourself. I would simply copypaste the text, then note that I did so in the response. If you want to be pedantic, you would add a section header (One of the rare cases you get to edit someone else's comment).--Relyk ~ talk < 00:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

cripes[edit]

...that error string. The solution is blatantly not to use forms. -Chieftain Alex 23:51, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Template:Recipe - modifications so that it can be used by the gw2 API[edit]

References: github + gitter

Basically Lawton would like to use the wiki's mystic forge data to produce api endpoint. We'd need: "probably just the input/output item ids", neither of which we had.

I added the output item id earlier (currently using the #var:firstID from {{default item parameter}} - seems slow to update), but I've paused before adding the input item ids, which we can do with #show based on the ingredient1/2/3/4 parameters.

My current thinking is that a second set of properties should be defined for the subobject on Template:Recipe, in parallel to "Has ingredient":["Has ingredient index","Has ingredient quantity","Has ingredient name"], which instead of using the names of items, uses the item ids. I think that we could reuse the index+quantity properties, and add "Has ingredient game id" instead of "Has ingredient name", but I don't know what to call the alternative property name for "Has ingredient". "Has ingredient list":["Has ingredient index","Has ingredient quantity","Has ingredient game id"].

I can't think of anything that queries "has ingredient index" or "has ingredient quantity" directly so i don't think this would break anything. Did I miss anything, thoughts? --Chieftain Alex 23:05, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The other thing that I considered is that we could just replace the "name" field with the "item id" + use the id for everything. (a bit more work to update the queries though) -Chieftain Alex

23:06, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

If lye wants to use the API, record properties don't get serialized at all. We have to set individual properties in the subobject:

- - [[Property:Has ingredient id 1]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient quantity 1]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient id 2]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient quantity 2]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient id 3]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient quantity 3]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient id 4]]
  - [[Property:Has ingredient quantity 4]]

Then he can translate that to the expected json array of objects. We already did this with Property:Has rune bonus (The reason being using records is insane when order matters). Also, I cannot express how good doing stuff like {{#var:firstId}} is for creating spaghetti code :P --Relyk ~ talk < 08:28, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I think I figured out what you're suppose to do. But working with record properties is stupid--Relyk ~ talk < 09:09, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah records probably won't be convenient. From smw:Subobject handling: "Properties of datatype Record use subobjects to store their "values" (which are really sets of property-value assignments to a subobject with an internal name)". So a record = a special subobject. I thought I was just doing the query wrongly. Thanks for your thoughts.

edit: if I was willing to do a separate query for each result, example for the first record id:

{{#ask: [[Amalgamated Gemstone/Recipes#_f6749eed7edb8f79304b6d6c3eae9096]] | ?Has ingredient index | ?Has ingredient quantity | ?Has ingredient name}}

which works, but is horrible. (5x as many queries if every recipe used 5 items...) -Chieftain Alex

10:09, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

The number of fetches isn't an issue as the proxy server will be caching the results.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:22, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Code[edit]

I'm really curious to know where one goes to learn the code you used to fix the template for the raid weapons. I recognized the bit of HTML code you put in for the apostrophe, but the rest I don't know and I'd like to learn so if you can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. - Do_odleplex 03:27, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

removing old question and replacing Instead of a new comment I'll ask: "same".-Darqam (talk) 13:57, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

the same errors pop up again and again if you have a memory for inane bits of wikicode. -Chieftain Alex

18:07, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Also, why are we not just wrapping pagename in #titleparts to remove the html at the top of the page? -Chieftain Alex

18:09, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

@Doodleplex, it's simple variables and loops so any familiarity with programming. Working with wikicode is from practice over a long time. All I did was refactor code. Most of our templates like navs look the same, so you write the same code over and over.

@Alex, I forgot about the #titleparts fix, I prefer that method.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:19, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

SMW properties[edit]

I would love your input on Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Semantic MediaWiki#Okay let's talk about cutting down properties. -Chieftain Alex 18:11, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

There's some other emails now but basically we're hunting for a query that runs 977x in the space of two and a half days (once every 2 minutes).

SELECT DISTINCT t1.smw_id AS id,t1.smw_title AS t,t1.smw_namespace AS ns,t1.smw_iw AS iw,t1.smw_subobject AS so,t1.smw_sortkey AS sortkey  FROM `smw_object_ids` AS t1 INNER JOIN `smw_fpt_mdat` AS t0 ON t1.smw_id=t0.s_id   WHERE ((t0.o_sortkey>'2456585.2563542'))  ORDER BY t0.o_sortkey ASC  LIMIT 55

which I'm told is the same as

{{#ask: [[Modification date::>Oct 19 2013, 18:09:09]] | ?Modification date | format = debug | limit = 50 }}

Now the reason why I'm bugging you is that way back when subobjects were a pile of shit for deleted pages we tried filtering on "Modification date". Would any of your sandboxes still have such a query? -Chieftain Alex

20:33, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Instead of playing telephone, I'd rather see the actual emails.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:30, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Bruh[edit]

Thanks for rebooting the ArenaNet Q&A project. I meant to revisit it after returning from PAX but just kept running out of time. - Felix Omni 18:48, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

nice try[edit]

Didn't think I'd notice, did you? Well I always notice! Eventually. - Felix Omni 21:38, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Tbh I thought you would notice sooner than you did.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:42, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Clearing semantic properties[edit]

Hey Relyk, I burned my hands while dealing with semantic properties: Versed in Stone (PvP) properties. Things that use these properties now show the pvp version as well, but I don't want the PvP version to appear on these lists. I already switched the template so no properties will be created, but due to the nature of those, they still exist. After looking through your talk archive, my best approach would be to overwrite properties that are used on other pages so that this PvP page does not show up anymore and then wait until the next semantic database rebuild. Is this the correct way to clear semantic properties? —Nefastu (talk) 17:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it's problematic to list the PvP version on the specialization pages. I'd keep using {{trait infobox}}. -Chieftain Alex

18:10, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

If there are no issues if the PvP page has semantic properties as well, then of course I will use the default template. Still, I'd like to know how I can properly clear semantic properties if I screw up :) —Nefastu (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

The properties only exist on the page. If you blank the page (hence the annotations), the semantic properties will be removed. Showing PvE or PvP versions of skills is completely a design decision that's fine to leave as is right now.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:14, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Archived Talk Pages[edit]

There are some links that got broken due to being moved that I found on your archived talk pages. As per the note on those pages, do you mind if I fix the links? - Do_odleplex 23:04, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

go head, other people usually doesn't even ask.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:59, 24 November 2016 (UTC)