User talk:Tolkyria/Archive

Template: Reward Track infobox

Moved to User:Tolkyria/Sandbox

Talk Pages and Sandboxes

Just some friendly advice: usually talk pages are just for leaving comments from user to user, and you've got what appears to be you testing stuff. I suggest you make something like "User:Tolkyria/Sandbox Page" and copy/paste/move your test stuff there instead of having them here so you can test to your hearts content without accidentally goofing up somebody's comment. =) - Do_odleplex 23:49, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, page moved, thanks for your advice. Tolkyria (talk) 00:02, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Defiance updating

You're updating a lot of these, are you actually verifying they've changed or are you just changing them? Not all foes have been changed, it should be noted. Konig (talk) 17:55, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Okay, noticed you did leave Unshakable on some NPCs. So never mind, was just wanting to make sure and it seems you indeed are. Konig (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I'm verifying all of them, for example see: Champion Reef Shark. Edit:Just saw it you edited it, well I tested it, there is no Defiance, although he has Unshakable. So yes, I tested it, broke the defiance bar. The only problem I may caused is * {{defiance}} instead of {{defiance}}, but I have seen these two all over the wiki - Tolkyria 18:04, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

There's really no need for the asterix before {{defiance}} (and IMO, it looks better without). I re-added defiant because it is produced by Unshakable. Though you may not have been able to get it to produce Defiant, it should (and is mechanically plausible), so I think it's best to be there. Konig (talk) 18:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Ok, updated my previous edits: no asterix before {{defiance}} - Tolkyria 18:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Skin pages and otheruses

Hello, I spotted you did a few of these edits. I don't think we normally bother with otheruses on the skin pages, primarily because the acquisition section usually links to it. -Chieftain Alex 16:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok, I just spotted that there isn't the {{otheruses}} tag, next time I won't edit it. My reason: I also checked the latest armor skins added, like legendary armor skins or the t2 wvw armor skins, both had the {{otheruses}}, so I thought maybe Greener just forgot it. --Tolkyria (talk) 17:04, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Borked ids

Hey again. Anet made some changes a year or so ago so that if you don't have certain items in your inventory, then the chatlink won't work. I've confirmed ingame that this id is for the soulbound version given upon using a Level 80 Boost, which somehow I still haven't used yet.

I've moved it to "other ids" so that if the chatlink is searched from ingame it still links to the correct item, but it won't be visible in the infobox. Good spot though and kudos for testing it. -Chieftain Alex 13:27, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, was thinking about this soulbound lvl 80 sharpening stone, just got confused about the "cannot link". I'm trying some price lists for my food, see [[User:Tolkyria/WvW]]. All prices were nicely presented with {{tp|name}} but for Superior Sharpening Stone it wasn't working. After I removed the "id = 78305" it worked.

But now with "other ids = 78305" it's not working again: {{tp|Superior Sharpening Stone|buy}} gives: …, only {{tp|9443|buy}} works: …. --Tolkyria (talk) 13:36, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I think {{tp}} needed to only return one item id. Annoyingly I can't use limit=1, but I can ignore everything after the first id. Hopefully it doesn't switch the ids order around later. Also sorry I didn't realise what you were up to earlier, my edit didn't help your case :( -Chieftain Alex 20:02, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks anyways. For me it was ok that with more than one id it won't work, but the with "further id" it was somehow strange. P.S. I'm working currently on an overhaul of Utility item to make it similar to Food. For example: Utility item#Special utilities just gives the recipe but not that stats, would this be more interesting? I hope this is ok, just asking before I change most of the page.--Tolkyria (talk) 20:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm sure that layout you've gone with will be more than acceptable. If not we'll definitely be letting you know on a talk page near you :P -Chieftain Alex 20:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Done for today.. after updating the whole page I took my first look at the Talk:Utility item page... Hihi, at least I wasn't the only one thinking it should be more like the Food page. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Great job on the utilities page!

The difference between before your edits and after is pretty amazing. It looks great too! --Rain Spell (talk)

Thanks :) Finally we, including myself, can look up quickly which utility is the best for each situtation. P.S. Moved it to the new section again, the one above is about me deleting IDs. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:36, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket

Thanks for making WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket better looks. but total average 2.52 is what I didn't write because I thought It's too far from general average... I mean due to Wood Chest and low-tier chests, its average is something not good to show people per-pip above all cause They can be caught in trap of average. So I only wrote per-pip to chests, not sum of all chest.(my English expression isn't good as I'm not native. I'm not sure how I can express this very well) Would it change your mind? --Targal (talk) 09:02, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, the first design, even it was mine, was always bothering me. Sure, we can remove the average from the last line, it just came from one iteration on my sandbox page, where I copied it from. I was just introducing the vertical line to seperate it cleary from the total amount, which is the most important information in each row. And since we are already talking about the table, what do you think about adding the required pips, see User:Tolkyria/Sandbox#Current with Pips amount column (of course modifing the last row)? --Tolkyria (talk) 10:37, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Desine which you linked seems good to use, though I'm still worried in average 2.52. but I have to say nothing better will be there than it for now. --Targal (talk) 13:24, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Done, removed it. I think we'll keep it like this, any other information can be found at Skirmish reward track, like minor tiers, pips, etc... --Tolkyria (talk) 13:57, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

thanks for your working. :) --Targal (talk) 14:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Token page

I really like the work you did on that page and the nav. I honestly don't know a thing about the grandmaster marks so thanks for adding them in. =) - Do_odleplex 18:56, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Your renewed Tokens nav was a great help to keep the overview. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:16, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Icons never hurt, historically they've always been powerful, and as lot of non-native english speakers use the site, the more help they can get the better was my thought process there in overhauling it. Also in regards to your Chris Cleary edit, yep you found the thread I was referring to, thanks! - Do_odleplex 18:27, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Hero weapons

Thanks for updating all of those many articles in such a clean manner. They were most definitely in need of it! G R E E N E R 16:19, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

The newer WvW equipment should be complete now: T1-T3 Hero's armor, all types exotic, ascended, legendary, T1-T2 Hero's weapon. I hope I don't have missed anything. The only armor missing from WvW is World vs World armor, but these pages need a complete overhaul. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:47, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Selectable prefix property

Hey Tolkyria, I've been trying to track down an issue with the prefix properties, and the only edit I can trace back to is this one by you. I'm not even sure if that's the culprit!

The problem I'm seeing is that the selectable prefix property is currently missing on items, and the common thread seems to be whether or not they have | prefix = selectable or not, whereby selectable is removing their ability to have the Has selectable equipment prefix property. E.g.:

• Gilded Orchid Band is missing the property, and has | prefix = selectable
• Spark of Sentience has the property, and does not have the prefix set in the infobox

If you're able to help sort this out, it would be much appreciated. G R E E N E R 20:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Either I'm completely missing your point or Alex already fixed it, which due to his comment might be possible: here. --Tolkyria (talk) 08:26, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Aye, it looks like Alex took care of things. Disregard the above. G R E E N E R 14:11, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Amazing job on the filters for Rune

Hi Tolkyria, that's a lovely bit of work you've done adding the filters to the rune page. Thanks for that.

I'm wondering, although they're called different things ingame, should we combine the buttons for Boon Duration+Concentration and Condition Duration+Expertise? (same effect ultimately) -Chieftain Alex 20:25, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I was about to write an anwser to your talkpage :)

I would keep the durations split from the attributes, there are somehow unique for runes, for example the traits have been converted to concentration/expertise some time ago. Also incoming condition duration doesn't match with an attribute.

Furthermore, maybe we can discuss the basic approach to the filters: My approach is have all attributes, boons, conditions and let the user find out that, for example Concentration or Aegis, etc.., there is no rune. The users might ask: why is this filter here then?

Your approach: only filters that yield an result. The users might ask: what's with the missing attributes/boons/conditions? I really don't know which approach is better. --Tolkyria (talk) 20:35, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit: I should always remember: Keep it simple. So yes, we should aim for a minimal amount of filter buttons.. what you are already doing. --Tolkyria (talk) 20:41, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I was entirely serious when I said please feel free to revert it.

One thing I could do would be to enhance the widget to check if there's any elements with the given class, and if not, gray the button out + stick hover text like "Unavailable" on the button. -Chieftain Alex 20:44, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I had 52 buttons before, now we are at 40. That's still a lot. Maybe we can argue about the aura buttons, then we would be down to 36 or 37 (if combined into one). But I would like to keep it like this. Unavailable buttons would just take up place and make the filter box more confusing and doesn't really provide so much needed information. --Tolkyria (talk) 20:51, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Good news, if we put the buttons in a second table, we can add a filter for filter buttons /s -Chieftain Alex 21:00, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Cascading filters, I like it!!! --Tolkyria (talk) 23:01, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Superior Rune of the Zephyrite

Superior Rune of the Zephyrite has the Skill Element. I just salvaged one and got a Charm of Skill. 92.76.16.199 21:55, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out, I have added it. It wasn't showing up in the Rune table because this table asks for the element of each rune (the page itself), i.e. | element = Skill hasn't been added at Superior Rune of the Zephyrite to the infobox yet. --Tolkyria (talk) 09:47, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

cough name-dropping cough

I hope you saw this tweet. Apparently Anet has their eye on you, et al. ; ) G R E E N E R 04:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I haven't seen it until now.

To be honest, it just happened that I created the logical consequence of all the edits on each of the rune pages. The overview table relies and wouldn't have been possible without all the edtis from .. well, actually there shouldn't be any names called, mine neither .. the wiki community. It is always the wiki community. --Tolkyria (talk) 14:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

It's always the community on the largest of scales, true, but we have user talk pages and the "thank" button to prove that we're more than just a slime mold. "just happened that I created the logical consequence of all the edits on each of the rune pages" indeed. G R E E N E R 15:44, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I think acknowledging individual contributions from time to time serves to remind the GW2 audience that wiki editors are also regular players like themselves, which may encourage them to contribute as well. So you should consider getting a shout-out to be building the community, rather than detracting from it. :D - Felix Omni 15:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thank you for making the wiki a better place with your tech magic! talk 16:13, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Wow, thanks :-) --Tolkyria (talk) 16:15, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Template:Equipment by prefix

The Form:Equipment query is a wrapper around {{equipment query}} so you could've used that. You will want to so you don't have to duplicate the effort on your own template(s). I would check if the results for a specific prefix are more than 1500+ items, because than you would want to just provide the form link so you can get pagination.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Subtly different imo, Tolkyria's template is more like an acquisition template. -Chieftain Alex 23:04, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

You're still fundamentally querying and filtering by prefix. We could add to the template itself or parameterize to allow to provide a formatting template that does show acquisition. That way you don't have to deal with stuff like hardcoding the level requirement in your query.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:00, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, if I remember correctly, chronologically when I created my template I wasn't aware that {{equipment query}} exists. However, as Alex already said, the only reason why I implemented the template {{Equipment by prefix}} is the Acquisition column. This is definitely the most interesting column, avoiding to open several pages, just to see.. ahh, 150 gold for that item,... ohh, well this is contained in a wvw box but I don't play wvw and so on... resulting in endless clicking and not getting the wanted result.

"The Form:Equipment query is a wrapper around {{equipment query}} so you could've used that." If you take a look at my template, you might see that I have used Form:Equipment query. Maybe not like you suggest it but nevertheless I have used it. See the button right to the subsection headers: {{#queryformlink:form=Equipment query|link text=<div style="height:20px">Equipment query: {{{type|}}} ({{#var:rarity}})</div>|link type=button|new window|Equipment query[rarity]={{#var:rarity}}|Equipment query[supertype]=Weapon|Equipment query[prefix]={{#var:prefix}}|wpRunQuery=true}}.

"hardcoding the level requirement" ... Honestly, only level 80 gear is interesting, one levels up so fast in GW2, that there shouldn't be any interest in below level 80 gear.

Furthermore, clicking the button also displays any gear with the requested prefix; as the introtext of {{Equipment by prefix section}} says:

• The following tables give an overview of the level 80 equipment available with the prefix {{PAGENAME}} or Selectable with an option to choose it.
• Clicking any button redirects to an equipment query giving an overview of any available equipment with the current section.

Finally, I don't care which template is used, as long as the acquisition appears. --Tolkyria (talk) 15:24, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that mount part to the template.

The original chain method I was doing looked super ghetto.--Rain Spell (talk)

You're welcome! Nevertheless, don't undervalue your effort, you did fine with the available tools. --Tolkyria (talk) 16:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Extended Editor rights

As per the power of Discord, you have the power! Greener (talk) 18:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. --Tolkyria (talk) 19:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Item IDs

I saw that you supplied the info for the Super Adventurer Quest items, none of which is in the API. How did you get the ID numbers? SarielV 19:17, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

If an achievement appears in the API, then the component parts appear, in order, as the "bits". example. -Chieftain Alex 19:54, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh, that would have been the easy solution. However, it doesn't explain, for example Super Short Cliff Face, check API link, it doesn't yield any result.

The way I did it: I checked v2/items, starting with id = 90078 (more or less) as the smallest id added with the last game update. So the range is something like 90078-90015. I subtracted the whitelisted ids from the set of all ids within the range:
all_ids \ unlocked_ids = {90078,...,90015} \ {90078, 90079, 90082, 90084, 90085, 90086, 90087, 90090, 90091, 90093, 90094, 90095, 90096, 90098, 90099, 90101, 90103, 90106, 90107, 90110} = possible_wanted_ids.
Then I pasted them into an item infobox, previewed it and Copy-pasted the chatlinks into the ingame chat.

It yield me the following result:

90080    [&AgHgXwEA]    Mystic Cake
90081    [&AgHhXwEA]    Epic Apple 
90082    [&AgHiXwEA]    Mini Super Adventure Gourdon
90083    [&AgHjXwEA]    Super Short Cliff Face
90088    [&AgHoXwEA]    Super Snowy Cliff Face
90089    [&AgHpXwEA]    Super Tall Cliff Face
90092    [&AgHsXwEA]    Legendary Cheese
90097    [&AgHxXwEA]    Secret Key  
90100    [&AgH0XwEA]    Incredible Prize
90102    [&AgH2XwEA]    Super Assassin Backpack
90104    [&AgH4XwEA]    Fabled Drumstick
90105    [&AgH5XwEA]    Auspicious Hat
90108    [&AgH8XwEA]    Majestic Crown
90109    [&AgH9XwEA]    Extra Tiara
90112    [&AgEAYAEA]    Incredible Reward

Might not be the easiest solution, and Cannot link from location may block pasting multiple chat links, but it works. --Tolkyria (talk) 20:46, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

So, not being in the API doesn't necessarily translate to not being available from within the game. Not what I expected. SarielV 17:38, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello Tolkyria

I was trying to teach myself how to write formulas on a page I thought was private but apparently it isn't.

you left a comment on my talk page referring to changes you have made to the Mini's pages for total costs of creation.

Would you be so kind as to leave a message on my talk page showing a formula of the exact same thing but using the sell prices rather than buy prices which the formula defaults to.

It appears simply adding Sell to the last line does not make the expected changes but rather causes an error

Thank you in advance —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JustinT (talk • contribs) at 13:35, 6 April 2019‎ (UTC).

Should just be a case of adding "info = sells" into the placeholder template.

{{tp total placeholder|info = sells
<item 1 quantity>; <item 1 name>
<item 2 quantity>; <item 2 name>
<item 3 quantity>; <item 3 name>
}}

-Chieftain Alex 13:42, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

That should work but generates an error message every time. I have tried countless different ways of writing it but every time the same error or a 0 value at the end.

Info = sells does this

• To complete the entire collection by crafting in the Mystic Forge, you will need 224 Mini Green Raptor Hatchlings and 456 Unidentified Dyes, it would cost a total of … (trading post buy price).

Sells on it's own does this

• To complete the entire collection by crafting in the Mystic Forge, you will need 224 Mini Green Raptor Hatchlings and 456 Unidentified Dyes, it would cost a total of … (trading post buy price).

Any Ideas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JustinT (talk • contribs) at 14:10, 6 April 2019 (UTC).

Hello there! Some basic things first:

1. This is a wiki, everything is public, nothing can be hidden ;-)
2. Please sign your comments with ~~~~, so we can see who added this comment.
3. There is the button Show preview next to Save changes, so you can check your changes before saving it.

Regarding your questions, the correct template usage should be:

{{tp total placeholder|info = sells|
<item 1 quantity>; <item 1 name>
<item 2 quantity>; <item 2 name>
<item 3 quantity>; <item 3 name>
}}
{{Tp total calculate}} 

Alex missed a vertical bar after info = sells, it's also wrong on the documentation page!!!

Let's try some examples:

Examples

Example 1

The buy price is: {{tp total placeholder|
224; Mini Green Raptor Hatchling
456; Unidentified Dye
}}
Calling the template {{Tp total calculate}} to actually do the calculations. This is important!

The buy price is: … Calling the template to actually do the calculations. This is important!

Example2

The sell price is: {{tp total placeholder|info = sells|
224; Mini Green Raptor Hatchling
456; Unidentified Dye
}}
Note that {{Tp total calculate}} only needs to be called once, here previous example!

The sell price is: …

Thank you so very much.. I can't believe I had so much trouble achieving that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JustinT (talk • contribs) at 14:30, 6 April 2019‎ ‎ (UTC).

You are welcome! P.S. Don't forget to sign your comments with ~~~~ :-) --Tolkyria (talk) 14:35, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello once again. I hope this isn't too forward of me but I have failed at yet another formula I am attempting and wonder if you might be so kind as to show me an example solution. What I am attempting to do is take a value from a link, for example a Mini Silver raptor.. then I want to subtract 10% from that amount.. It would then become a new total and from there I would like to subtract another amount from it.. that amount would be the total cost of creating a Mini Silver Raptor if we were using the above formula you created. I have come close to a result but each time I think I have it I get an error. Thank you again in advance (JustinT (talk) 13:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC))

(Reset indent) Sure, you can always ask, however, this time there isn't a satisfying anwser. The trading post prices itself are handled with javascript and are simply just displayed, it's not possible to compute with these values. You can only modify the item quantites before asking for the trading post price, either by hand or using the function {{#expr: (1+2)*3 }}. See: Mediawiki ParserFunctions #expr (and maybe Mediawiki Variables). --Tolkyria (talk) 14:07, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Fabulous job

Well done on creating another absolutely cracking template. (Template:Drop rate lookup worth table) -Chieftain Alex 21:37, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! I needed a justification that all the calculations for {{Drop rate lookup worth}} are correct and luckily the total values are the same. Also transparency, especially on a wiki, is always nice and somehow required. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:52, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Game update histories

We (the wiki) can give you a hand if you let us know what method order you're using (so we don't bump into you) / which pages you've covered. -Chieftain Alex 21:54, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Right now I checked and updated all weapons (missing Spear and Trident, which I want to finish today). So Skills and Specializations needs to be checked and updated. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Just wanted to say (1) we're nearly there, at about 957/1082 pages updated so far, and (2) thank you for requesting some assistance on discord. Sometimes it feels like we're fighting an uphill struggle with projects on the wiki, but doing these reminds me what a great resource having the history of everything easily accessible is.

I should be able to do most of the engi stuff before the patch hits. I'll get whatever I can done tonight! -Chieftain Alex 22:34, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for joining, my intent: "doing it slowly" was somehow killed by the "next week balance patch announcement" last wednesday; your overview simplified a lot. Indeed, that was exactly my motivation, to keep this great project running (and hopefully, now with some template improvements and simplifications it will continue).

Somehow related, I'll leave this here such that I said it at least once: Fire/history and co but not today, not tomorrow, but in the future if there is some spare time.

P.S. Mesmer done, leaving Engineer (never been a fan of this profession) to you. --Tolkyria (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

"Recovered" Charr Artifacts

I believe that my results are correct and that NOT EVERY "recovery" includes a key. To me, based on the (4) that I have listed over the past few days, it "appears" that keys are dropped only about 1/2 of the time. This idea is VERY tenuous, based solely on my personal observation. The other, now "fairly" obvious fact is that the drop of the headgear is not only rare, but HIGHLY improbable!! Since this is the ONLY source for these collectibles, it "looks" like this collection will NEVER be obtained (by anyone except ANET staff and their friends). If that sounds angry, it probably should be!!! By my count I've gotten about 50 "Recovered" Charr artifacts between by 18 characters, and have YET to see anything "better" than a RARE Flame or Legionnaire weapon from ANY drop----------and many didn't even include one of them. While all of the (4) "named" weapons are available at the TP, the armor is invisible!! Undouble (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

No need to start a new topic, see User talk:Undouble#"Recovered" Charr Artifact/Drop rate. --Tolkyria (talk) 08:37, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Skill palette ids

I hope you don't mind but I added most of the missing palette ids to your sandbox.

This little exercise highlighted to me that there are still a number of skills that appear when trying to create a clean list of Heal/Utility/Elite skills. List. The skills that stick out to me are:

• Underwater replacements — maybe we could change the values of "Is usable underwater" from Y/N to Underwater-only/Land-only/Land-or-Underwater
• The skills automatically used by turrets — maybe we should remove the utility flag and set something else instead"
• Elementalist and Druid glyph variants — possibly ok
• Chain n>1 skills — could set chain sequence position=1 on everything non-chain too.

Any thoughts on if these should be adjusted/how? -Chieftain Alex 22:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Sure, thanks for completing it... the duplicate revenant palette ids somehow killed my motivation. At some point we should also provide the id table in mainspace.

Ad 1. I think I had once a situation where this would be handy, but can't remember exactly where and why. Can't see any reason to not change it.

Ad 2. Indeed, that aren't really utility skills, although the API list them as such. The Turret page lists them as first chain skill, which somehow implies that the player activates this skill. So yes, another skill context would be appropriate, maybe "NPC"? Comparable with Category:Monster skills (which have no skill context set yet)? Some more detailed notes would be necessary, e.g. Healing Turret and Cleansing Burst doesn't link to each other (except for a related trait, but that doesn't explain the connection between them). Edit: Not true, in fact Healing Turret → Cleansing Burst but in general the Game updates/2017-05-16#Engineer changes haven't been added to the turret and their overcharge notes sections.

Ad 3. That's tricky. Idk, maybe the best would be to leave them as they are right now.

Ad 4. That's in my opinion the most important one. I also had that in mind, in order to sort 1) by weapon slot number and 2) by chain sequence position in smw queries this should be set to an default value (e.g. 0 or 1) even if they are not chain skills. However, how should we treat Stealth Attack, e.g. Backstab for dagger #1 (see also Dagger#Thief)? Three possible answers: a) set it to chain position = 4 (does this break anything for the actual autoattack chain skills 1-3?) b) use another property that inherits chain position, or is set manually (here to 4) or defaults to 1 (or 0) c) something else. If we could implement this consistently, then at least the weapon skill pages could be created automatically; skill type pages are special because some secondary skills don't have the type according to API and description prefix, e.g Preparation. Maybe Has sort skill type or similar could solve this.

--Tolkyria (talk) 23:43, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

For turrets, we could copy what we've done for Conjure Fiery Greatsword and Lesser Fiery Eruption (that skill is autocast whilst holding the sword), i.e. set the "parent" parameter instead of slot=utility. -Chieftain Alex 00:25, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good, but a skill context would be nice. Forget what I said about the context "NPC", that doesn't fit at all. Idk... what about "autocast" or "subskill", something like that implies the player isn't actively casting the skill (maybe also state this in the infobox under parent skill).

Ad 4. If we are going to generalise the chain sequence number, then I would suggest to generalise the following properties too:

1. We should be able to get all split skills from one game mode as well as all unsplit default skills. This could be achieved by setting this property to "Default" on default, i.e. [[Is for game mode::Default||PvE]] to get all PvE skills (and hence exclude the subobjects, which right now there is no way to do so).
2. Furthermore, one should be able to get all core profession skills in a convenient way, currently if we ask for [[Is for profession::Elementalist]] we also get Tempest and Weaver skills as well as we can ask for [[Is for specialization::Tempest]]. However, to get exclusively core elementalist skills isn't really possible right now. There is the sort property [[Has specialization sort order::0]] to get the core skills but as the name implies this is mostly for sorting. Hence somehow a boolean property "Is core skill" (or similar) would be nice and more convenient for queries. It is simply set to "y" if no specialization is set otherwise "n" in the infobox.

Then we should be able to create weapon skill tables automatically in the same way as we do it manually now. --Tolkyria (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Corrections:

1. I forgot that the profession and specialization categories differ, e.g. Category:Elementalist skills and Category:Tempest skills contain only pairwise distinct pages. Although this doesn't hold for historical uncategorised skills, hence in my eyes a property solution would be still appreciated.
2. I forgot attunements... there goes one query for all professions, unless we introduce a sort numerical property between Has profession sort order, Has specialization sort order, <new attunement sort order>, Has skill slot number. Otherwise we could arraymap it by profession, but then still we need to be able to sort: Fire < Water < Air < Earth < Fire + Water < Fire + Air < Fire + Earth < Water + Air < Water + Earth < Air + Earth, it just differs if we apply this property to all professions (default 0 except for elementalist) or only to elementalist.

Well, that gets more and more complicated... --Tolkyria (talk) 15:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I summed up how the weapon skill tables can be created right now (with examples) and what is required to display it correctly in my sandbox. --Tolkyria (talk) 15:12, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Turrets: I've replaced the auto-use skills with parent and removed the slot parameter. Also updated the turret page.

Chains: Ranger dagger gets a 4 skill long chain. I propose we use 5 as the Stealth chain number, and set a default of 0 for all non-chain skills. I've edited the skill infobox to reflect this.

Underwater: About to switch these over to "Land and Underwater", "Land only" or "Underwater only" (query for land stuff with "!Underwater only")

Is for game mode: Added Default as requested.

I'm not too worried about having different queries for different professions but we can work on that.

-Chieftain Alex 21:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good, I missed to mention Ambush skills, the behave in the same way as Stealth Attack, can you change #ifeq to #switch? However, ultimately I would have went with a chain inheriting new property, 1) to have full control over the chain property, i.e. if it's number than it should be a chain and not excluding by skill type: stealth attack and ambush; 2) to be able to sort Dual Wield skills. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:10, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Editing spam intensifies... added Ambush. I realise my edits will break underwater queries/?results, I'm thinking let them break (can't be many) and find the queries later. -Chieftain Alex 21:16, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Did I miss something with respect to Artillery Barrage? Would be surprised if it can be used underwater. -Chieftain Alex 21:42, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

No sorry, my bad. I already reverted. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Quick remark: It turned out that at the current stage of Dual Wield skills and their chain skills the property "Has chain sequence position" is doing its job correctly, due to default value "0". I hereby withdraw my comment from above. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:06, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Are you aware that you placed <!-- Chain and Stealth attacks --> and <!-- Underwater useability --> into AUTOCATEGORIZATION and hence they won't be set on historical pages?

We are nearly there, the weapon skills can be almost sorted in the correct way. Still missing are the weapon sort property from the weapon infobox (reusing the property "Has weapon type number") and the attunement skills (new property), see here. Maybe a property to select core skills only, but one could use categories there either, at least for non-historical skills.

Slot skills by type are a little bit more difficult, there we would need a hidden type property (or something similar) to label secondary chain skills that neither ingame nor in the API have a type set, e.g. Physical, Preparation, Spirit. Furthermore, we would need to specify a display order replacing the sort property "Has skill slot number" used for weapon skills.

Edit: I have added

{{#switch: {{lc:{{{6|}}}}} <!-- "Has skill type" -->
 | tool belt = [[File:Chain Arrow Toolbelt.png|25px|link=Tool belt]]
 | burst = [[File:Chain Arrow Toolbelt.png|25px|link=Burst]]
 | primal burst = [[File:Chain Arrow Toolbelt.png|25px|link=Primal Burst]]
 | stealth attack = [[File:Chain Arrow Toolbelt.png|25px|link=Stealth Attack]]
 | ambush = [[File:Chain Arrow Toolbelt.png|25px|link=Ambush]]
 | #default = {{#ifexpr: ({{#if:{{{13|}}}|{{{13|}}}|1}} > 1) AND ({{#if:{{{13|}}}|{{{13|}}}|5}} < 5)|[[File:Redirect Arrow.png|25px|link=|Chain]]}} <!-- Checking for "Has chain sequence position" between 2 and 4 -->
}}

to the skill tables, hence the parameter "chain" is redundant now. --Tolkyria (talk) 22:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Revisiting the property "Is usable underwater": On default it is set to "Land and Underwater". This holds also for weapon skills and profession mechanics (especially Burst and Primal Burst which are tied to a weapon). Should we improve the default value setting code and take the weapon cases into account?

Edit: Or is it simply a property value naming issue and replacing "Land and Underwater" with "Default" (standing for no restrictions, usable everywhere as long as it's supported by its context) solves it? E.g. sword skills with "Is usable underwater = Default" are of course only useable on land, same for trident skill with "Is usable underwater = Default" only underwater.

Related and hence recalling what I wrote above: Are you aware that you placed <!-- Chain and Stealth attacks --> and <!-- Underwater useability --> into AUTOCATEGORIZATION and hence they won't be set on historical pages? --Tolkyria (talk) 12:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Regarding the autocategorization bit, ofc it was accidental, I'm a nitwit and didn't notice everything else was a category. -Chieftain Alex 20:09, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Little query

How did you salvage avocado salsa Tolkyria? I can't salvage or sell (to anyone) that or avocados.. Yours confusedly, Lya

Bowl of Avocado Salsa and craftable food in general can be only salvaged with a Portable Composter, which is obtained during the ascended cooking achievement Gourmet Training. --Tolkyria (talk) 09:26, 4 November 2019 (UTC)