User talk:Idris

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hi

yes hello they removed that channel you dislike, you should rejoin the discord horrible | contribs 23:51, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! I'm not sure I'm well enough to rejoin just yet, but I'll definitely think about it! —Idris 07:53, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

re: [1]

We can probably just link to u/Portrait_Prophecies' comics and call it a day. - Felix Omni 18:35, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[2]

Lol, I'd forgotten about the ear thing. I know you're joking, but we have a legit source on that. —Idris 18:39, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Conduct unbecoming a member of the wiki

→ moved from Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Admin noticeboard#Conduct unbecoming a member of the wiki

Idris, I dont think you're at fault here. Honestly you're not responsible for other peoples actions and I'm not really convinced it had anything to do with H's behaviour after the fact. -- Salome 22:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I guess I'm just annoyed with myself because, since I hadn't personally witnessed Horrible's recent troublemaking, I ignored the very obvious signs that the rest of the community were rightly angry with him. I still believe his heart's in the right place and I still want to help him improve, but I could have read the room better. —Idris 00:02, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Folks, I won't ask you not to discuss this matter further but I will ask you not to discuss it directly on the noticeboard. Edits here ping a lot of watchlists. :P - Felix Omni 01:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

thanks

I appreciate your continued attempts to push me to be constructive, but I'm not a good use of your time. There's unfortunately no room for constructive discussion as long as some members of the community will intentionally obstruct it. Putting time and effort into such activities is an exercise in futility, and only serves to frustrate. horrible | contribs 02:37, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I think you've handled the Sya discussion very constructively so far. :) Is that what you're referring to when you say "some members of the community will intentionally obstruct [constructive discussion]", or are you referring to something else? For what it's worth, I can understand the frustration with the volume of cis voices clumsily clogging up the discussion, but they're trying their best and definitely acting in good faith, and it seems that most of them were willing to let the trans voices take center stage. —Idris 02:51, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Merci

Thanks for fixing the images, I'm half-dozing clipping and uploading these. talk 18:12, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I figured! I make silly mistakes like that all the time when doing that sort of repetitive task. Keep up the good work! —Idris 18:13, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Sending a derailed train to another track

All I can say is that based on my experience with how the discord discussion went, that would not be a accurate or fair guess in all cases. horrible | contribs 14:59, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Obviously it's hard for me to comment because I don't really know what happened -- and I'm not saying this is a black-and-white situation -- but based on my experience with how you can be, I'd say it's possible you're downplaying your role in the discord getting to the no-politics-ever state it's presumably in right now. Buffs called me out for claiming the wiki version of the #BLM disucssion was totally respectful because of your subsequent behavior that led to your week-long ban, and that's a fair point: I forgot you were even a part of that discussion (prior to the ban) because what little involvement you had was non-productive at best, and if it hadn't been for me actively suggesting concrete actions that reflected consensus, the discussion likely would have died on "politics aren't needed on the wiki".

You demand change, but others have to do the slow, sloooooow, exhausting, emotionally draining work of enacting that change for you. And, if I'm honest, I am starting to run out of the spoons to keep at it. You've been doing a much better job of making constructive contributions to the wiki over the past couple of days, and I genuinely thank you for that, because I know it's not easy for you either. But please, I beg you to take some time to reflect on how your past behavior might have been counter-productive. —Idris 17:17, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear I'm not suited to leading this charge, I have little patience for all of the fuckery surrounding this. The more I interact, the more likely I am to cause harm by doing so in the wrong manner.

I've been demanding change and accountability here not because I want to. I'm doing it because I feel someone needs to, and no one else is.

Please don't feel obligated to fight the battle if you're not in a position to do so safely. If everyone disagrees with me, that's not on you.

I genuinely do not think there's a productive way forward with this. Poke took this matter to the community specifically because the admin team wasn't able to come to a resolution that they were all happy with. If they had, and still wanted community involvement, then they would have presented such a resolution as an option.(edit: see tanetris's comment below) There's no fucking way a larger group of people with an even greater range of opinions will get anything done. It's pure wikipolitics at its worst. horrible | contribs 17:58, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, let me be clear - I am trying to improve the wiki. That's always been my goal, but I'm aware I'm a toxic piece of shit. I'm working on it. I don't like talking about my problems in public, and I especially hate using them as an excuse. I'd much rather people take my actions at face value, you included. horrible | contribs 18:01, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I do know that you want to improve the wiki -- believe me, I wouldn't be reaching out to you if I didn't whole-heartedly believe that -- and I can tell that you're aware, on some level, that you're being counter-productive. What I mean when I ask you to reflect is to think about statements like "It's also fair to say I'm not the most diplomatic person, and could have voiced my concerns better. But, even given everything that's happened since then, I would not change how I handled it" -- you acknowledge you didn't handle it well, but then immediately add that you wouldn't have handled it differently. Not even a little differently? What's the point of acknowledging your flaws and mistakes if you refuse to learn from them?

I want to see change and accountability too, otherwise I would have settled for a nice onanistic statement like "yes of course I agree that racism is bad, problem solved" instead of pushing for constructive outcomes. I'm not some naive fool who thinks that everything will be fine so long as we all just try to be optimistic -- I understand how difficult and draining and infuriatingly slow it's going to be to bring about real change. I'm willing to do this. But I'm quickly going to run out of energy and morale if the person who should be my ally is undoing all of my efforts. I'm not asking you to be perfect -- I'm asking you to stop acting like the game is over just because you're frustrated by this hurdle. —Idris 18:57, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Since I was mentioned here, I want to point out that I took the matter to the community portal because I didn’t agree to post something on the “fake behalf” of the community when it was only a few people discussing the topic in a very heated way. Additionally, I also didn’t to publish a message explicitly from “the admin team” (although not everyone was involved) which is what was being pushed for at some point. I moved the discussion to the community portal because I felt this was not something that I or a subset of the community should decide on (regardless of the actual intentions). I did receive some backlash for it but I still stand behind my decision there. poke | talk 19:41, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

"Poke took this matter to the community specifically because the admin team wasn't able to come to a resolution that they were all happy with." This is inaccurate. We did come up with a tweet text we were relatively happy with (less Inc and Alex who had already left the Discord by then and were unavailable for comment), but Poke was concerned given the recent backlash against the admin team acting without community input that this might be perceived as further distancing ourselves from the wiki community and IRCabal-ish. Which is a reasonable motivation, even if some of the rest of us were concerned about the sort of bogging down that of course happened.

I would've offered the proposed tweet text on the Community Portal, but literally the first reply (Hi Idris!) was dismissing just a tweet without substantive work behind it would be meaningless, which isn't wrong. If you're curious, the text that we were generally all on-board with before the CommPortal discussion was started was: "Wiki contributors come from all over the world, in all colors, shapes, sizes, and orientations, and we value all of them. The wiki admin team supports BLM, Pride, and all fights for equality. To all our users, be safe and we'll see you in Tyria. (quote-tweet the NCSoft tweet here)" - Tanetris (talk) 19:59, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. horrible | contribs 20:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Glad to see that two weeks later you've made absolutely zero effort to get involved in the work you were screeching at everyone else to do. Well, you win, I give up too. Who gives a fucking shit. —Idris 22:34, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Some of us do... DJemba (talk) 22:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

On Ox's Gender

Re: this edit, fun fact: Ox is (almost?) always referred to as male, even in Bjora Marches, despite having a female voice in Shadow in the Ice storyline. Konig (talk) 06:59, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't realise that, thanks. Silly me for expecting consistency from ANet. :p —Idris 14:54, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually -- I reverted my edit, but now I see that Ox's article uses feminine pronouns too. Do we have a standard on the wiki as to how we refer to Ox? I'm not seeing any mention of the inconsistency on Corrupted Ox Spirit; maybe we should add that to the notes? —Idris 15:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Bringing this up at Talk:Corrupted Ox Spirit#Pronouns. - Felix Omni 15:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

A long time ago

This queer is sad to see you go. ❄The F. Prince❄ (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm just so sick of Horrible's hypocrisy. Nothing I do or say gets through to him. I might return, once my mental health recovers again. But in case it becomes relevant while I'm gone: I'm in favor of permabanning him if he acts up again. I will support troublesome users to the ends of the earth if they can show that they give a modicum of a shit about the wiki, and Horrible is clearly not one of those users. —Idris 18:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I'll fully admit I'm a hypocrite. But accepting the community consensus - even when I disagree with it - is not hypocrisy. I archived the page after more than a month of no changes. Even though it's been un-archived, there've been no additions and I don't think there's any interest in continuing the topic further. Just accept that I'm not the person you want/need me to be, and just leave me alone.

P.S. - openly speculating/talking about someone being "trans and closeted" (which I'm not, though I suppose I'd deny it even if I were) is effectively outing them and is a shitty thing to do. horrible | contribs 23:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

You were so desperate to make me stop talking to you that you archived your talk page just to make it clear you didn't want to continue the conversation, and now you've actively reverted a comment I removed from my own talk page in a conversation with someone else, (that I removed because I regretted writing it!) just to tell me to leave you alone again? OK.

If I musjudged in openly suggesting that you're either cis or closeted in the context of you getting upset that nobody listened to your opinions on what offends trans people, then fair enough, I'll reflect on where I went wrong there and try to do better in future. But I'll be having that conversation with an actual trans person, not you. You have the audacity to talk about accepting the community consensus when only a few days ago you were crying about the fact that consensus on the deadname -- as backed by actual trans people -- was in opposition to what you, a cis person, wanted. And you implied that this consensus is proof the wiki is full of "fuckwads" who can't be reasoned with. You're a real piece of work.

I no longer regret saying what I said above. You care more about your ego than the wiki or the people on it, and are actively making it a toxic place with your presence. —Idris 03:03, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

One thing that is important in online communities: you can just ignore people you do not see eye-to-eye with. Helps a lot. ❄The F. Prince❄ (talk) 08:17, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. I shouldn't have let my anger get the better of me; my reaction to his latest nonsense was disproportionate, and I'm sorry. But I can't just ignore him when his behavior is so demonstrably harmful, yet the only difference I've made is to be complicit in spreading his toxicity. I'm too unwell to navigate this responsibly, and I don't want to be a part of the wiki while that's the case, especially since trying is just making me even more unwell. —Idris 15:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)