User talk:1Maven/Archive 1

To avoid revert wars

Per The Blood Witch - the NPCs in Caledon and Timberline are Champion Krait Witches - they're completely different and thus the information of the Caledon and Timberline witches do not belong on The Blood Witch article. Information on the events that you keep adding are on the three respective event articles, each linked on the two NPC articles and are fully unnecessary - and inconsistent - to be placed on the NPCs' articles. Konig 09:08, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Empyreal Fragment

Move to User Space

Can I suggest we move Talk:Empyreal_Fragment#Empyreal_Farming to a subpage on your userspace then link to that on the talk page? That's so the talk page isn't bloated.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:52, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I may be incorrect as a relative wiki novice, but I was under the impression that placing the information on the "Talk:" page was the correct procedure so that the main page Empyreal Fragment would not get bloated. I would consider your suggestion if you would be kind enough to point me to the instructions to create a "subpage on my userspace". The other issue is that there are multiple locations that currently point to Talk:Empyreal_Fragment#Empyreal_Farming. I would prefer to avoid another layer of redirection. ~ 1Maven < 27 December 2013

Talk pages are intended for discussion of the article's content, not as workspaces for writing walkthroughs/guides. That's what userspace is for, and that's why Relyk suggested moving that content to your userspace. Your continued editing of the article's talk page dilutes its usefulness for actually discussing the article. To create a subpage, you just type "User:1Maven/SubPageName" into the search box, then it will prompt you to Create the page "User:1Maven/SubPageName" on this wiki! (Or you can just edit the URL in your browser tab directly instead of using the search.)

I'm not sure what you mean by "multiple locations that currently point to" your guide on the talk page; I only see the link that you added to the Empyreal Fragment article. We can easily change that (move it to a "See also" section), so that's not a concern. —Dr Ishmael

01:51, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Harathi Additions

I love this guide, use it often. Great way to get fragments. 2 chests you do not have listed in The Harathi Hinterlands, there is a chest on the bottom level of Blackhold mine camp guarded by 2 veterans and a champion. I've been able to solo it with my necro as a minion master, but there always seems to be another player or two around. Also a chest in the Ruins Of Holy Demetra near the Martyr's Tomb poi. Easy to get to and it might be only guarded by a veteran. Thank you for compiling this list. Sheridan (talk) 23:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words. I have added the two chests you mention to the entry. 1Maven (talk) 20:15, 13 December 2014 (UTC

Mount Maelstrom

Any better description other than NW of WP? I looked like crazy and didn't find a cave with a veteran troll and chest. Love your guide it has been most helpful. Thanks for all you have done. Kayla

Thank you for pointing out this error, which has been corrected. It is all North-EAST not North-WEST of the waypoint. You can see the first troll from the waypoint. ~ 1Maven (talk) 10:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

pages moved

Hey, please keep your userpages within your userspace. I moved your guild roster to ~~User:Maven1/Guild Roster~~. —Dr Ishmael 13:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I moved another subpage of that. —Dr Ishmael

15:07, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Ack! I screwed up - moved them to 'User:Maven1/...' instead of 'User:1Maven/...' I'm very sorry for that, ~~and I'll fix the ones you haven't re-created ASAP.~~ Never mind, I see you're combining both regions on one page now, so you've got it all covered. —Dr Ishmael

16:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Reply

Thank you for realizing, acknowledging and correcting the mistake. I understand your concern. I will place future related pages in my own user-space. 1Maven (talk)

Hi, I saw that after this reply you made a link to this userpage from a mainspace page guild I understand your intentions, but it isn't supposed to work that way. The user pages are used to do whatever you like, but if you want to get this content on the mainspace, to deliver a proof of concept. When it is a small change to the wiki you are perfectly ok to just change it. In this situation it isn't. You are proposing some changes that have a big impact. For example, my first thought if presented would be, if it isn't better to use an API to track active guilds instead off letting guilds list themselfes. So i nthis situation I would advise to build on the proof of concept and when you got a full working situation (copy paste the guild page as well with your proposed changes to it) you put it on the talk page of it(in this case guilds). when consensus is reached it can be brought to the mainspace. The consensus can also be to start a project first to make the proof of concept even better. Hope this helps to reach your goals ;) 195.240.63.18 21:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

API Insufficiency

I feel that my way is best because I do not see how accessing the API would help with what I am trying to accomplish: A list of active Guilds. I investigated the API-Guild-function and found it was deficient in several critical ways.

cannot list guilds without knowing either guild_name or guild_id
cannot determine which server (world, realm) is associated with that guild
cannot determine many guild attributes, which may determine "activity"
- size (#members)
- # member logins during any period of time
- influence
- Guild log
- Guild Leader name

I could not even find the limited information available when I know the name of the Guild. This may be related to the lack of a server-ID in the interface. Given this information, I will ask if you have any other suggestions on how I might demonstrate "proof of concept".

Per your comment on my talk page, that anonymous editor above isn't me. The current implementation of the guild API was not intended to give full information on every guild in the game. Instead, it was intended to complement the WvW APIs by listing the guilds that have claimed objectives in the WvW maps, and including only the information relevant for that purpose. There are plans to expand the guild API in the future, with information like what you list here, but access to that data will be restricted through OAuth2 - you'd basically have to be a guild member or leader to see most of it.

I agree with what User:Auron said at User talk:1Maven/Guild Roster. There is no way this project will ever be viable, because you'd have to get buy-in from a huge percentage of the active guilds in the game, and somehow keep them committed to updating your project for the life of their guild. If it didn't work for WoW, it won't work here. —Dr Ishmael

13:27, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Recipe sheet unlocks

...are stated in the recipe box. —Dr Ishmael 17:19, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

amulets

Amulet (loot) already lists everything it looks like you're trying to add. They don't need separate articles. —Dr Ishmael 20:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Moving pages

Where possible, we like to retain the edit history by using the "move" feature rather than just copying the content from one page to another. As long as you're autoconfirmed, and I reckon you will be by now, there is a tab to the right of "edit" called "move". -Chieftain Alex 19:31, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. I was not aware of this feature. I will make use of it in the future.

Update: I do not have this Administrator ability. Until and unless it is granted, I must continue to use the old, clunky way ~ 1Maven (talk) 18:25, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Move is not an administrator ability. You should have it, and it should appear on every page. If you can provide a screenshot showing your lack of a move tab, that would help. —Dr Ishmael

18:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

redirects

When creating redirects, it's unnecessary to create redirects in both lower-case and title-case. A single lower-case redirect is all that's needed. —Dr Ishmael 20:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. I was not sure how that worked.

edit summaries

The text that's auto-generated between /* */ symbols is the section title where you clicked a section-edit link. Don't modify this text - the wiki uses it to create a link to that section on the history entry. If you look at the history page for Account, for example, you'll see arrows before each of the section titles in the edit summaries. In the case where you modified what was between the /* */, it's attempting to link to a non-existent section. —Dr Ishmael 15:56, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Understood. However, if I have additional commentary on the changes made, where should they be put?

Outside the /* */. —Dr Ishmael

17:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Tentacled Horrors?

Where does that information come from? -Alarielle- (talk) 15:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Tentacled Horrors are mentioned in 3 locations: ~ 1Maven (talk) 16:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

That's just a description, not an identifier or a name. —Dr Ishmael

16:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, but it was the best (only) description that I could locate. ~ 1Maven (talk) 16:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving

Hi. You recently moved a lot of pages with rarities in brackets. However, we use lowercase when defining qualities, and unfortunately you used uppercase. I've moved, deleted, and cleaned up everything that was left behind, and I also made adjustments to ensure that future moves go to the appropriate pages (Master>Masterwork, for example). So please, move the rings, amulets and whatnots to their lowercase counterparts, not uppercase. Another thing, whenever you're moving something, you're moving its contents, but not the pages that link to it; meaning that you're essentially leaving broken links if you don't manually fix it. To prevent that, click the "What links here" button in the lower left of every page and you will see how many pages link to the relevant page. Make sure you're not leaving any loose ends before moving a page. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, since all of this is a bit confusing for a new editor. —Ventriloquist 10:08, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I understand your comments. I used pre-existing nomenclature, whenever possible and provided redirect-pages and disambiguation-pages to prevent broken links. Unfortunately, your "cleanup" has created numerous broken-links and loose-ends on these disambiguation-pages. How do you suggest that these be handled? ~ 1Maven (talk) 10:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I am aware of that, I edited the disambig pages in order to adjust for the future moves. If you feel like doing it, go ahead, if not, I'll move it all later today. —Ventriloquist 10:35, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I would greatly appreciate it if one person with greater experience were to handle it in a comprehensive manner to preclude the introduction of additional issues caused by multiple people working on the same pages at the same time. Please note, I did not yet get around to performing the equivalent actions on the Silver Ring group or the Silver Earring group. ~ 1Maven (talk) 10:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

No problem, I'll drop by it later. Just follow my examples for the Silver accessories and you'll be fine. —Ventriloquist 10:59, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Is it necessary for these pages be split up into 2-3 pages each or can {{craft table}} be altered to be used for jewelry too?

Also, the orichalcum jewelry names include the suffix from the upgrade component. Should those pages be moved to remove that? —Mora 16:29, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

There might be a higher-level order of disambiguation for trinkets that would provide for Gold Rings before a particular type (example: Topaz) is further broken down by rarity and/or level. I have created a tentative list of these at User:1Maven/General Testing. It is fairly long. Before I continue, I would like to hear your suggestions on how to proceed. Is there some way to automate or streamline the process? Perhaps merging the separate rarity pages using {{craft table}} mentioned by Mora would be a better solution. ~ 1Maven (talk) 17:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Hugely complex template needs an update to make it even more hugely complex? Say no more. —Dr Ishmael

19:02, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Was just about to get my hands dirty, but it looks there might be an alternate way. I'll see what Ish tinkers up, but I'm confident he'll do it, so it's just a real simple process of moving everything back to the suffix-less page.

@Mora If a page is being split by a specific suffix (item) and not just "rare" or "fine", then it should follow the exact name of that suffix. —Ventriloquist 20:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Here are examples:

Amethyst Gold Ring (fine and masterwork) — use the {{craft table}} for varients
Amethyst Gold Ring (Rare) (rare) — rename to lowercase, separate page because most of the rare versions have unique icons
Sapphire Orichalcum Amulet — I thought the format for equipment was to not include the suffix ("of the Cleric") because the name changes if the upgrade component changes. So the item won't always be named that way and it shouldn't be included. —Mora 20:28, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

You're correct about the last point, although I remember a bit of discussions for and against adding suffixes such as those to trinkets. It is better to just list the bare trinket, without its easily-replaceable suffix. —Ventriloquist 20:32, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, most of the jeweler-crafted trinkets now have the "hidesuffix" flag, meaning that they never show a suffix at all. So any pages that still have the suffix definitely need to be moved, and all the ones that have it in the infobox need to have it removed. Although you can probably skip on the infobox modifications, because I'll be making those individual pages obsolete very soon with my new and enhanced craft table. —Dr Ishmael

21:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Check out Copper Amulet Mithril Amulet Orichalcum Amulet. (The missing icons in the orichalcum table have the suffix as part of the filename, thus the table template can't find them; I didn't want to go moving any files yet.) If this looks good, I'll get the rest of the pages done tomorrow. —Dr Ishmael

01:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I like it overall, but suggest the following enhancements to column headers: ~ 1Maven (talk) 03:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

change "Link" to "Item Link"<break>"Recipe Link"<break>"Base Spidy GW2TP" (standing for Base Ingredients, GW2Spidy and GW2TP). This would allow removal of the repetitive words "Item" and "Recipe" underneath and keep useful links (that might otherwise be lost) to Base Ingredients, GW2Spidy and GW2TP.
To make more room for other columns, merge the "Trading Post" and "Value" columns into a single column with the new header "Trading Post"<break>"Vendor Value".
To make more room for other columns, merge the "Rating" and "Level" columns into a single column with the new header "Rating"<break>"Level" .

I'm not modifying the layout of this table right now - it's already in use on all crafted weapon and armor pages. I'm only adapting the back-end logic so it can support trinkets as well.

Your suggestions are somewhat contradictory, too - first you suggest breaking up the only multi-valued column there is, then you suggest creating two more. Multi-valued columns like that are a bad design choice, in any case, and should be avoided when possible (the links are merged because they're essentially two representations of the same thing). —Dr Ishmael

04:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps I was not clear. I was not suggesting breaking up any column, only merging columns. Where I said <break> in my earlier example, it indicates a line-break between words in the same column-header, not a column-break. Since most entries are 2-3 lines each, this would be a more efficient use of space. You point out that there is already one multiple-value column. I am suggesting two more, each containing related information. I understand that you would not want to change a table that is already widely in use. How difficult would it be to create a new table specific to Trinkets? ~ 1Maven (talk) 04:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Merging either of those columns would be confusing and bad design. The rating refers to the recipe rating and the level refers to the item level requirement. Merging the TP and value columns in a line would be very confusing as it's not immediately obvious which value is which.

Those columns aren't the significant offenders anyways, the major offenders are the ingredients and stats with displaying the full name of the page. If we want to shorten it, the first cut would be displaying just the icons for the attributes. We could definitely make the item icons smaller (I think we did this somewhere else).--Relyk ~ talk < 05:32, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I feel that if a table is used instead of separate pages that a primary design goal should be to include all the information that is now contained in separate pages into the table. That includes links to Base Ingredients, GW2Spidy and GW2TP. If this is not possible then perhaps it is best to keep separate pages. I am more willing to compromise on packing multiple functions into a single column, even if it is not an optimal design, but I am open to other ideas. ~ 1Maven (talk) 07:35, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Base ingredients is one link we can definitely leave out. The table is for a piece of crafted equipment and the base ingredients are going to be identical most of the time. Rather we would provide an overview of the base materials or pick a representative piece to list base ingredients. The GW2Spidy and GW2TP links is for the price graphs since we present TP information directly and ultimately for convenience.

And no, I don't think separate pages is an option as it adds an large amount of work and redundancy in presenting the these groups of crafted items. Managing all the variations on a single page with this approach reduces the hazards and upkeep required for the individual pages. We can also take an approach with using a form to provide a detailed page of an individual item for derived information like chat links and base ingredients and provide that in the overview.--Relyk ~ talk < 08:01, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Projects/User birthdays

That's for recording your actual birthday, not your account's. —Dr Ishmael 17:57, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

"Delete these"

Hi there. Whenever you feel like a certain page should be deleted, you can place the delete template on a page (while giving a valid reason) and one of the administrators will review it and delete it, or not, depending on the reason given. The same goes for any page in your userspace, so I'm wondering - do you want those pages titled "Delete these" on your userpage completely deleted, or do you wish to keep them as a redirect (although I'm suspecting it's the former)? —Ventriloquist 16:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Playable races

This article has enough special information that it should not be merged with anything else. —Dr Ishmael 23:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Appending to this in regards to other edits as well, discussing and reorganizing articles is fine. But you still have to discuss and have other people agree with you before making changes. You can also draft revisions in your userspace first before changing the main article.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Commander

Hey there, I changed one of your edits on this article, but you changed it back in your next edit. In future, if you disagree with a change someone made to one of your edits, don't immediately revert it back to your version -- ask about it first on the talk page. In this case I felt it was making the page far too bloated to quote an error message, when it would have been simpler to just say "you can only use these while tagged up". --Idris (talk) 10:25, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I liked your edits. If I reverted any of them then it was inadvertent and unintentional. Please restore them. I do not believe that what we are each doing conflicts. ~ 1Maven (talk) 10:33, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Ah, ok then. Apologies for assuming you were doing it on purpose. :) --Idris (talk) 10:40, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Location formatting

Zone pages don't include NPCs, those belong on the area pages. Many of the area pages are really lacking with NPC information though. —Mora 15:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate your reaching out to me and understand your concern. I find it easier and less daunting to modify four zone pages then about 80 area pages. Is there a similar concern for pets and crafting resources? I notice that locations and events are duplicated in both WvW zone and WvW area pages. I am not familiar with bots, although I have seen them mentioned. Is there some way to create a bot to do what you suggest? ~ 1Maven (talk) 16:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

In all likelihood, this task can't really be performed by a robot, no.

However, personally I think that we should be listing the services in the case of these WvW zone pages since this is the most helpful overview summary for a reader to have. This is mostly because WvW locations have much more in the way of services than non-pvp locations, and really nobody in their right mind is going to want to have to visit all of our stubby small articles to find out. If we choose not to list the services on each individual borderlands page and only on the summary page, then possibly we should stick

== Services ==
{{main|Borderlands#Services}}

on each of the borderlands pages to make it supremely obvious where the user should look for information. -Chieftain Alex

21:39, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Images

just wondering, is there a reason you're uploading tiny images? You know the infobox resizes tiny images to be at least 200px wide right, which means that the result is really pixellated. -Chieftain Alex 21:24, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm assuming they take it from a fair distance from the NPC, thus making it very small after cropping. You can always stand next to the NPC and crop yourself out. —Ventriloquist 21:30, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Usually, I try to do that. However, I was rushing this time. I'll replace them at some point, but feel free to replace them yourself with something superior if either of you have the opportunity. ~ 1Maven (talk) 22:34, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Alex, you found really sharp images as replacements. Where did they originate? Unfortunately, there is the problem. The images are mixed up:

Armorsmith is a Charr, not human, but is the correct image for Huntsman
Huntsman is Human, but the wrong guy (see above)
Tailor is a Sylvari, not Human
Chef is an Asura, not Human
Weaponsmith is a Charr, not Human

I like your images more than any screenshots I might replace them with, but they do need to be corrected. ~ 1Maven (talk) 02:42, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Alex's set of screenshots doesn't completely match against your original set - his tailor doesn't match against any of yours, and your chef doesn't match to any of his. Is it possible that they all have different models in the 3 different borderlands? —Dr Ishmael

03:41, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Ish, that's a great idea that I did not consider. I think that you are on the right track, but it may be even more complicated. There may be a rotation by both day-of-the-week and which of the 3 borderlands you are in. I am trying to see if this is true and if there is a pattern here. The question then becomes how to handle it in main-space. BTW, I was not allowed put the various images into user space. I hope this is not a problem. ~ 1Maven (talk) 07:11, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

It may be completely random, too. That's what I would expect, rather than a daily rotation (because that would be a silly thing to program). —Dr Ishmael

12:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

That is certainly a possibility. A few days of observation should be indicative. Do you think "image=no" for the NPC-infoboxes is the best solution? Alex, do you recall which Borderlands (red,blue or green) your images came from? Was it late Monday or early Tuesday, after the reset? ~ 1Maven (talk) 15:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

A lot of generic-model using NPCs tend to change models from random selections during map creation. I've noticed the same NPC having 2 different appearances quite a few times. But this is usually for Citizen NPCs and other super-generic non-combat NPCs so I'm unsure that WvW crafter NPCs would do this - it most likely is that each borderland is different (or perhaps each server). Konig 15:48, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Weirdly I took them in game (-bmp command line, adjust vertical height to that of npc, high res npc textures selected). I visited two areas: Eternal Battlegrounds Green Keep + Green World Citadel. Crafter NPCs (just checked) do have the same models as I witnessed yesterday evening. The WvW Laurel vendors do have different models from place to place at least, but I can't easily visit another world's citadel :P -Chieftain Alex

17:09, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Based on observations documented here, I have updated the 8 Artisan (Master crafter) articles using a common template. Please verify this has been done correctly. ~ 1Maven (talk) 07:48, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

They change whenever the map is rebuilt - yes, that happens when WvW resets and after a game update, but it can also happen when all players leave the map, the server deletes the instance to use the memory for other stuff, then it builds a new instance when a player enters that map again. That may not happen very often in WvW, but it's possible.

But that's how all randomly-generated NPCs work, so do we really need to mention that on these pages? It seems pointless to me. —Dr Ishmael

13:18, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

linking

Only link the first instance within an article (or within a section for long articles). —Dr Ishmael 14:48, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Noted. I'll try and keep that in mind in the future

Other then aesthetic, is there some performance or other reason? ~ 1Maven (talk) 14:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Mostly a carryover from Wikipedia. Things look tacky with a thousand links down the whole length of an article. Occasionally it's acceptable if it's the first mention of <thing> in a long time... like if it's a 20-page lore read, it's dumb to scroll back up to the top of the article to find a link. But most of the time, articles are small enough that one link has it covered. -Auron 15:42, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

NPC infobox location

Only use area (or zone) names in the infobox. Don't use points of interest - they aren't part of the map hierarchy. —Dr Ishmael 19:48, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

So, POIs are OK under location, but not infobox, correct? Will you back it out or should I? ~ 1Maven (talk) 19:51, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

If you want to, go ahead: there's a lot more than I expected that have a PoI. —Dr Ishmael

19:53, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not surprised, some people (like me) like to be specific, where possible. Although the Template:NPC infobox documentation says area or zone for location, it does not explicitly exclude POIs; assuming people go there to read the description before using it. Is it possible to add a check in to code to exclude POIs? ~ 1Maven (talk) 20:03, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

If it says "area or zone," then it means area or zone. Nothing else should be used. —Dr Ishmael

20:08, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

that POI crap needs bot fixing... -Chieftain Alex

20:30, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

The formatting pages specify area or zone along with the templates. We should have added that constraint to the template sooner I guess. We'd do objects at the same time.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:45, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I expect there is a similar issue for every infobox template that includes a location parameter. Using a POI instead of an area or zone currently appears to work seamlessly, even though they aren't part of the map hierarchy. Since there are probably even more cases then Ishmael has highlighted, I agree that a bot should be used to do the cleanup, if possible. This might be followed by adding a constraint to every infobox template with a location parameter. ~ 1Maven (talk) 22:56, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Navs on query pages

Right this seems incredibly obvious to me, but are you aware how the query forms function? They insert a block of results at the bottom of the page - meaning that your nav template is marooned at the top of the page between the "press these buttons to get results" bit and the "answers" bit. This is an absolutely abhorent design to me and completely unacceptable formatting. -Chieftain Alex 16:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

You make a good point that I had not thought of. My lack of experience is showing again. Is there some way to get the Nav under the search results? Do what you think is best. P.S. Sorry if I created extra work for you. ~ 1Maven (talk) 16:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikis have history pages for a reason, and that reason is to allow changes to be revised ^

Relyk doesn't like the table of contents style template either so I'll just see what turns up (or not) -Chieftain Alex

21:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

We can put it at the top, but individual forms don't need a nav. You are using that form specifically to query information you want. You have no reason to browse to other query forms. Navigating to a page that lists all the query forms would be sufficient to me, which can be done with the category and have a main article that gives more information on the query forms.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:47, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I put things back the way Alex had it to save time and trouble, but if either of you think of some better way, do it. Items with missing chat codes, that Alex pointed out earlier, still need to be dealt with so that the queries return all correct cases. ~ 1Maven (talk) 21:53, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) minor points:

Try not to capitzalise the first letter of template names, e.g. "Template:Help Nav" -> "Template:Help nav", unless the topic is capitalized ingame too.
Use {{bullet}} • instead of *

-Chieftain Alex 17:30, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

There was already a Template:Help nav (lower case n), which I did not want to impact. I have since moved it, but am not sure that I got all the linked references, so the current redirect may be useful to retain. I will use {{bullet}} instead of * for templates in the future. ~ 1Maven (talk) 17:37, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I could see the logic behind not overwriting the other template. You can use Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Help nav (accessed from the sidebar on the left) to hunt down template transclusions - I removed it from the remaining pages + will move your template to that title. -Chieftain Alex

17:48, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

edit summaries for new pages

There's no need to type "New (Talk) Page" in the edit summary when creating a new page. That info is pretty obvious from it being the first entry in the page's history. Additionally, if you leave it blank, then it will automatically populated with the first part of the page's content, which allows people reading RC to identify what sort of page it is. —Dr Ishmael 19:36, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

other versions

Don't describe other versions in the prose of an article. Use {{otheruses}} for that. —Dr Ishmael 18:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the heads up on the clump page! Daddicus (talk)

emphasis

It's rarely necessary to emphasize anything, even with simple bold or italics, and bold+italics is almost never necessary. If you feel an important point is being buried in a paragraph of prose, reformat it into bullet points. —Dr Ishmael 15:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

icons in text

Afternoon. I'm just looking at the current revision of Mist Warrior + thinking that the icons in the midst of the location section are a bit of an eyesore. I wouldn't think that chatlinks for WPs would be necessary either, they aren't exactly interesting NPCs with hordes of players visiting them :p -Chieftain Alex 14:43, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Complete agreement on the eyesore aspect. It's not that hard to find an NPC who never moves, so all that extra fluff is unnecessary. —Dr Ishmael

16:21, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

OK, I'll remove them when I make the next edit. ~ 1Maven (talk) 17:30, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Pagename qualifiers

Warden (Directions) and Seraph Soldier (Directions) exist in order to differentiate them from Warden and Seraph Soldier. Wolfborn Guide is a unique name, so it doesn't need a qualifier. —Dr Ishmael 20:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Cata comp tables

I suggest you remove those tables while you adjust your values. I don't think you remembered to factor in damage resistance of both fortified walls and reinforced walls. Not only do they have increased hitpoints, but they also have damage reduction to omegas, catas and trebs. For instance, fortified walls will resist cata damage by 66% and reinforced walls will resist damage by 75%. I suggest you review your numbers and then prior to adding tables on the main page put up a request for comment and continue the discussion you started here with correct values. Keep in mind that in a month's time some of these may change as well. Venom20 22:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

No need to remove the tables. The values will be fixed over time.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

As I said in Talk:Catapult#Comparison Table, Only one person commented prior to release and I obviously did not account for this important factor. Feel free to make appropriate changes or point me in the correct direction and I will do it. ~ 1Maven (talk) 00:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Objective

Why didn't you just move Structure? They're the same things, just the name changed. —Dr Ishmael 16:07, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

There are differences now between the two entries, which I expect to increase over time. The reasons to keep structure are the same as the reasons to keep structure upgrades which include, but are not limited to, maintaining a historical record for reference and the many places in the wiki that still reference this basic concept. It will take a while to track them all down and update to objective. ~ 1Maven (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

It's an evolution of a game mechanic, but it's still the same concept: things in WvW maps whose ownership can change between the worlds and can be upgraded by the world that currently owns them. Keeping Structure as a historical page serves no purpose; on the other hand, redirecting it to Objective (and noting the history of this mechanic in the Trivia section) would immediately inform readers that the mechanic has changed and show them how it has changed.

I'm going to merge the two pages' histories in order to achieve this. —Dr Ishmael

21:46, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Collapsible recipe list tables

Just use {{recipe list|class=expandable collapsible}}, we don't need a separate template for that. Plus, where are you thinking of using collapsible tables? -Chieftain Alex 09:24, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking of using it for scribe which has several long tables of recipes. How will your solution work with Template:recipe table, which has an embedded call to Template:recipe list without creating these two new templates? In a related issue, while I have no trouble updating most pages, I've been having problems updating the scribe page in particular. For an unknown reason, I frequently receive the error message:

502 - Web server received an invalid response while acting as a gateway or proxy server. There is a problem with the page you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed. When the Web server (while acting as a gateway or proxy) contacted the upstream content server, it received an invalid response from the content server.

Any idea why this might be happening? ~ 1Maven (talk) 13:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, meant {{recipe table|class=expandable collapsible}}. I've copied the code to both so both can take the parameter though.

Basically you've got too many results on one page, every result with recipe list yields at least 3x icon calls (which are expensive). The scribe page is stupidly long. It should be like all the other crafting discipline pages, e.g. Huntsman, where the recipes are on subpages. -Chieftain Alex

14:43, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Since there is a simpler alternative, there is no reason for the two "ctable" templates that I created. Please delete them. I agree the sub-pages method used by huntsman is a better way to go. Unfortunately, when I began trying to do it, I kept getting 502 errors, making it impractical to impossible. Fortunately, I see that you decided to take a crack at it :) One note: the "Guild Consumables" section should be split into "Guild Consumables", "WvW War Chest (Tactics & Improvements) and WvW Consumables (Siege Equipment). ~ 1Maven (talk) 15:20, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I've made a rough start, split further if you need to but make sure it is logical. (and yeah, hiding templates by using "collapsible" means the wiki still has to process the icons so it doesn't fix 502s ;) ) -Chieftain Alex

15:55, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The only thing collapsible elements are good for is for hiding things from the reader. As Alex pointed out, it doesn't make the wiki skip processing what's hidden. They should only be used in cases where the hidden content isn't terribly interesting (i.e. {{loot variant table header}}) or where we have good reason to initially hide the content (i.e. {{spoilers}}). Just because some content is long, doesn't mean it should be hidden. A list of recipes is useful content, and hiding it on page load introduces a complication for the reader, who then has to find the tiny "[show]" link and click on it to expand each section they're interested in. —Dr Ishmael

17:44, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) To elaborate on this, any time a result formatting template for a query is making subqueries and a large number of results, you end up killing the wiki and get a 502 (500 items * 4 queries per call=2000 #ask calls for example). {{recipe list result format}} is a formatting template rather than an embedded template call. It's a single template to format results for {{recipe list}} and {{recipe table}}. We've already done some optimization so you don't get 502 errors unless you do large queries. The other reason for subpages is so editing the pages don't take forever to complete.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:57, 27 November 2015 (UTC)