Talk:Stealth

Does the Snow Leopard

Does the Snow Leopard here refer to the pet or norn shapeshift skill? Link is to the norn skill, but i'm not sure if that's how it is supposed to be. AoshimaMichio 17:25, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh, i'm late again... AoshimaMichio 17:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

This is

also an effect of some skills. Disambig, maybe? --ஸ Kyoshi 00:04, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

"Skills which give stealth"

ummm... ? 173.190.20.163 00:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Pet skill

From the pet skill page the snow leopard's skill named Stealth redirects here. Shouldn't be named something like Hamstring (dog skill), for example Stealth (Snow leopard skill)? 91.82.83.181 22:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be. Eive 22:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Should the pet skills that give stealth like the snow leopard skill be mentioned on this page 62.255.110.101 23:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Well there are none. That snow leopard skill doesn't exist afaik. ShadowedRitualist 02:45, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Camouflage

Here's the thing: All thief skills specifically mention Stealth and (at least from the ones I've seen) all give you a version of themselves as a boon that gives you invisibility. Camouflage on the other hand directly mentions invisibility and doesn't give you a buff upon use. --zeeZ 23:59, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

That is because Camouflage doesn't actually grant Stealth. I don't know who claimed it did. Stealth merely hides you from view, it doesn't otherwise hamper you in any way. Camouflage has the conditional effect of movement, something that does not apply to Stealth. - Infinite - talk 00:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

That was what he said. :P --AdventurerPotatoe - 00:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Actually... "Stealth is broken when the user attacks, but some stealth is also broken if the user moves." Afaik, stealth isn't a true effect, it's part of a stealth skill. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 00:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

That quote on the article is also based on Camouflage, mind you. - Infinite - talk 00:11, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Not quite, either. "Most stealth is lost when a player attacks through it. Some stealth breaks when the player moves" is the verbatim quote from the second mention of stealth on the thief's reveal page. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 00:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, down there. But if Camouflage doesn't give the Stealth icon, should we still classify it as such? Or wait for future updates/announcements? - Infinite - talk 00:24, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

It would probably be best to wait. "Invisibility" might make you invisible to allies, too, for all we know. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 01:11, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Shadows and reflects

I just noted that when you carry an object, the object turns invisible but you can still see its shadow. Also as I noted on camoufalge page, when you turn invisible you can still see your reflect on water. Lokheit 15:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Have you been able to tell whether or not other players can see your reflection or the shadow of your items? I know it would take a coordinated effort to get a player on a hostile match/server to cooperate, but that would be interesting info. Puk 05:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Stealth versus Invisibility!!!!!

I think invisibility is same as Stealth because "some stealth is also broken if the user moves." Even if it's not the same, it behaves very similiarly and should be included on article about Stealth. Mediggo 09:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I think invisibility and Stealth are two different things. Stealth is a strange kind of buff, while invisibility is an effect. If you look at thief footage, all Stealth skills give you a buff version of themselves upon use, while Camouflage simply makes you invisible without any kind of buff. "Tooltip for buff associated with hide in shadows says you are invisible" (@Tanetris). They're two different kinds of things with the same effect ;) I say we leave it off until it's clear how that stuff actually works, as was suggested in the section about Camouflage above.. --zeeZ (talk) 09:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I doubt they'd have two mechanics for such similiar effect. It's either two terms for one effect, or Stealth is a buff which makes Invisibility effect not break when moving. Eitehr way, the effect is practically the same. If Stealth is all about the buff effect it gives (compared to Camouflage) there should perhaps be another page to document Invisibility. Mediggo 11:00, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Well the effect, invisibility, is the same. Gain stealth basically means you get a buff that gives you the invisibility effect, while Camouflage skips that step and goes directly to invisibility. Looking into that madness is on my todo list for gamescom. --zeeZ (talk) 11:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I should make up a list of stuff for you to look into, if you're going to be in Cologne during gamescon. I certainly hope they're not just going to use two different words or mechanics for one thing. Mediggo 11:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Did that ever happen? :D I'd still say Stealth is a group of skills that are buffs, not an effect. The effect is invisibility. --zeeZ (talk) 21:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Should we document Stealth as a boon and Invisibility as an effect, then? To avoid confusion between the two. - Infinite - talk 16:46, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

That's how I always perceived the two, but weren't boons supposed to be limited in number and we already had them all? Or did I mix that up with conditions? --zeeZ 17:46, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

"I doubt they'd have two mechanics for such similiar effect." Not really following the discussion, but this drew my attention... How about teleport and shadowstep? different mechanics, same effect, even in GW1 (with the exception that with shadowstep you had to physically be able to reach the target too, but that's beside the point) --El_Nazgir 17:58, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they're two similar mechanics with similar effects. Like I said before, invis is the effect, stealth modifies its rules. Though one could argue that shadowstepping is just a teleport with modified rules too... Still, Stealth is a unique thing to the thief. --zeeZ 18:03, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I don't recall a list of confirmed and finalized boons or conditions anywhere. :\ Stealth gives a similar effect icon as the boons and conditions do, but at least the ranger skill did not (does not?) show any icon in the effects tray. Since it behaves as a boon or condition and grants a beneficial effect, one would assume... It'd need confirmation but we already know there is a difference between Stealth and Invisibility, so there is really only one option left. Is there a recent article which groups stealth with other boons? If that is the case, it's pretty clear to me that Stealth is a boon and Invisibility an effect, which Stealth utilizes and expands with varying other uses. If only we had drop-dead confirmation still hiding somewhere... - Infinite - talk 18:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

The idea that stealth is thief only mechanic is absurd. Stealth is no more limited to thief than fear is to necromancer or confusion is to mesmer. Arenanet hasn't even used the word invisibility so how can some people come up with the idea that there is stealth and there is invisibility? Ramei Arashi 21:10, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Then explain to us why only the thief skills specifically mention attaining Stealth, whereas the non-thief skills that make a character go invisible do not, ever. There is not only a difference in text, but also in mechanics. Stealth is not *just* invisibility; stealth is a form of invisibility with the limits of regular invisibility removed/altered and grants a thief its Stealth skills. - Infinite - talk 21:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I would also say , that every stealth skill makes you invisible, but not every invisbility skill is a stealth skill. So stealth is invisibility with some special attack-benefits and limited to the thief.--Inoshiro 21:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

As I just pointed out on IRC; Aegis, block. - Infinite - talk 21:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Why Stealth?

Honestly, imagine a charr runing around in a very daylight stealthed. I'm a great fan of assassin thing and want to play Thief in GW2 but why it had to be invisibility that is called stealth? Guys from ArenaNet put so much efford in creating all that great stuff that we can experience in betas, and I am talking about the whole game, and then include something, in my opinion, so irracional and OP as invisibility? Instead of stealth it could be for example a cool-named way of fast, almost like resonating, movement that would prevent characters from targeting the Thief also granting quite a bit of transparency (like 70-80%) and in PvE NPCs wouldn't 'pay attention' enough to notice a player. This would add some racionality, make it another revolutionary aspect of GW2 and finally nerf this assassin-like class in a way that they wouldn't have to nerf combat skills later. To continue: it would be still possible to hit, let's call it, 'resonating' character with AoE/ground targeted skills like while stealthed and break it for a moment on damage. In PvP 'resonating' would allow other players to defend themeselves against stealthed attacks by simply spotting the Thief and acting accordingly but it would still be extremely hard because of the transparency level. Which means both sides, the adversary and his victim-to-be would have an opportunity to use a little bit more real-time tactics to hit/avoid. And also the existing stealth skills and traits wouldn't have to be changed too much or even at all. What do You say, guys?

Edit: On the other hand I guess it's about the name. 'Stealth' refers to ability to blend in the surroundings using camouflage and freezing in a place or moving slowly and carefully but not disappearing completely. I guess 'stealth' thing wouldn't bother me so much if in GW2 it was simply the name 'invisibility' (as a condition/buff/stance or whatever) for invisibility. Honestly, the word 'stealth' reeks of WoW, Lineage (which I dislike (played both)) and resembles all those single and multiplayer RPGs from the past too much. Talking about revolutionary ideas... Nevertheless, what do You think, guys? Kielbotronix 00:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I think you should take this subject to GW2Guru or some other forum, or make a suggestion at feedback in GWWiki. Wiki talk pages are meant to discussion about contents of articles. Not skill realism, balance issues, character builds... well, you get the idea. Mediggo 00:44, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Effect While Using Healing Skills

Does Stealth/Invisibilty/Cloak/Camo or w/e people want to call it break if a healing slot skill is used while under the effect? -- Blue Phoenix 01:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Cross-profession combinations

Some of the smoke combos have stealth as an effect so should they be put on the page and if so how --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.255.110.101 (talk).

"Stealth can be used in combat"

I don't fully understand this line, especially since it "Stealth is broken when the user attacks". So basically you can only use it in combat to heal and be not targeted, as any enemy targeting skills will reveal you again? Or am I missing something? Previously Unsigned 06:30, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

It just means you can enter the stealth state while engaged in combat. In some games that's not possible- stealth skills are disabled until you're out of combat. 06:40, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Stacking

On the stress test, I've found out that stealth stacks in duration when reapplied before it ends. However, it could be my imagination. Needs to be confirmed. Gnarf 10:02, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

This is not WoW

This is not WoW. As far as I know, stealth and invisibility are functionally identical in GW2. --207.10.176.35 18:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually funny you bring WoW up, can Stealth in GW2 be seen through? The way high level characters could see more easily through a low level stealth in WoW? Does anyone know? Theoretically if there is no level of stealth, if its just on or off, you could stealth a lvl 1 character past the biggest baddest npc in the game yeah? Puk 04:50, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Why Stealth is broken.

First of all, I like Stealth as a combat mechanic in games. So I don't feel it should be removed. But Stealth is very difficult to balance. There are some good elements about Stealth in this game. But when you put all the elements together as a whole, it is just not a fun experience. It's one of those experiences where the person doing it just cackles in an "oh I pwned you noob" annoying gamerz sort of way. And the person opposing it just mumbles "so annoying". I'm sure NOT EVERYONE feels this way, but I know A LOT of players feel this way. Now, a little of that is annoyingly OK, BUT a Stealth mechanic should support good players being able to counter in, and more so, Stealth only being effective in a good players hands. I know people will argue that this is how it is. And it is a little bit. But the levels to how this is true is not good enough. It is too easy for mediocre players to own face with Stealth, and that's a balance problem where I come from. Some of the issues I feel need addressed with Stealth are as follows:

• Target Acquisition. This game strives to be in between a "hit stuff where you are aiming (more FPS style)" and a "hit your acquired target (more RPG style)" game. Re-acquisition of Stealth status targets is too clunky. You should not see where a Stealthed target is, or necessarily see changes in their health bar, but you should be able to auto-reacquire targeting when they unstealth. This can be accomplished in many ways. To provide one example, have a stealthed opponents top center targeting information remain visible, but change the health bar to black. If you use a targeted skill on a Stealth status target, the skill behaves exactly as if you had no target available. When a unit un-stealths, their bar does not change back to red. It remains black. To make them a proper red health bar target again could be by pressing a button "similar or the same to how 'follow target' works. Alternatively, the target could be reacquired by using a skill on such a target while they are in your field of vision (or even while they are in the central 75% of your field of vision, or while they are in your field of vision and in range/not obstructed).
• Sick Em. While I complain about Target Aquisition in general, you then have the flip side of a coin, where clones/illusions will beline for a target coming out of stealth too easily. I think this should actually stay in the game, but when you have such a disparity for how NPCs vs players re-acquire a stealthed target, it creates a silly situation of you either too easily, or too difficultly re-acquire targets. I'm not saying it's that hard for a player to re-acquire a stealthed target, but seconds count in this game, so when you see them and have to fumble to get them back in target status, well, this is just too long in a game where fractions of seconds matter.
• Target Loss. Still on the target thing, but perhaps the problem isn't in reacquiring targets, but rather that this could be fixed by having the Stealth Status player not be able to target while in stealth. This is actually a little broken, I'm really only citing this as an example that the solution to this issue could lie in something other than ease of target reacquisition.
• Finishing Them. Even with traits, you should not be able to perform a full Finish Them action while stealthed. With trait investment, you should be able to perform up to the first ~50% of a Finish Them action stealth, but any more just gives me a silly "I unskillfully laugh at you" feeling, and honestly, a less satisfying kill, or feeling of "that was a lame ass way to be killed" (depending on which side of the kill you are on obviously, but both being a feeling one gets from a non-serious PvP game... and I believe GW2 is trying to be a serious PvP game as proven by real money entry fees for tournaments, which I laugh at too).
• Detect Stealth. If this is in the game, I haven't seen it. Most games with a stat driven Stealth mechanic, have a stat driven counter Stealth mechanic. What does "stat driven" mean? Well, it means when the game makes you stealthed rather than a player. Player driven Stealth would be hiding in a place where it is difficult for another player to see you, and player driven Stealth detection is knowing how to tell where a Stealthed player is without any sort of in game skill. However, most games which have a stat driven Stealth mechanic, have a stat driven counter Stealth mechanic. Now, I sigh as I transition to say that unfortunately, such counter mechanics are harder to balance than the Stealth mechanics themselves. The goal is to afford some mechanic that mitigates a degree of the effectiveness of Stealth, without making it obsolete. Consumables are the obvious choice, but a bad choice. Breaking a target out of Stealth when you deal damage/CC them (by blindly striking where you think they are) may be too strong, but it's not a horrible way, and it does encourage skill. Perhaps there could be a threshold of times you have to hit them (this threshold would be higher for AOE ring abilities). And if you contribute to that threshold of knocking them out of stealth and have no target selected, then you re-acquire them as a target when/if they have that threshold broken (this could be either a full or partial fix to the Target Acquisition issue mentioned above). Alternatively (I really like this one), Detect Stealth could be a status that 1-2 skills on any given weapon set bar possibility would possess. This would allow for the single-hit-a-stealth-status-opponent effect to break stealth (or reveal stealth for a short time), but make it a skilled shot where you have to have an OK idea where they are, or be protecting a zone against them entering undetected (staff skills, a weapon tending towards more zone control, would be more likely to have this). The recharge on this skill could have a synergy to prevent you from spamming stealth detection/breakage, and requiring real/satisfying stealth prediction player skill. Alternatively, you could find some type of Stealth Detection/Breaking ability in traits, but I feel traits might be a poor way to accomplish this mechanic.
• Other. The above may be enough, or there may be other mechanics. The important goal to reach is one where Stealth is viable and strong, but not be in a silly overpowered state that it is in now. It's great that it's a combat mechanic, but being a combat mechanic makes it really hard to get that level of balance just right. And in the current state of the game, it's not right. But perhaps the combination of solutions is something other than revealed in this bulleted list.

Now, not all those issues need addressed. But there needs to be a better synergy of Stealths balancing mechanics to make it a fun experience for both sides of an encounter. You may be unconvinced about this argument, but look at how many people bitch and moan about Thieves and Mesmers (strangers in public chat, not people I know personally) being so OP in PvP/WvW. Sure, people will always be babies and moan about classes they see having an unfair advantage over themselves. But when it gets to a certain point, you at bare minimum know that a large quantity of people perceive it as a problem. And in such a massive public game, perception of a problem is proof the game designers -- while smart about many things -- have their heads in the sand about some things. --Mooseyfate 15:35, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Call me a bitch and moaner from the public channel if you like (see above), but I totally agree stealthed Finish Them should be abolished or tweaked, however my proposal lends itself more to the "You are revealed when you attempt to Finish someone" approach, which will annoy many a Thief no doubt. Or even having to spec 30 pts in a trait line to be able to choose that ability to do it, would be a satisfactory alternative. Puk 05:00, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

This should probably be in your userspace or forums.--Relyk 05:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Probably, but if someone is anal enough to move it there, I spose I'll just delete it anyway. Puk 01:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I didn't bother reading the OP's post, because it has nothing to do with the article about stealth. It also doesn't help me understand how stealth works in the game. On the other hand, I would have read it if it were on the forums under "Suggestions." 75.36.180.174 07:25, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Many folks will come here to read and ask questions about the stealth mechanic so it's a nice place to communicate the idea at least that stealth is broken. We went from a game where you could see an enemy's presence anywhere on the compass map to one where players have a complete invisibility mechanic. Arenanet made quite a few mistakes with the transition to GW2 (gameplay wise) and the stealth mechanic is one of the bigger ones.98.225.41.218 10:11, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Stealth vs. NPC Rapid Fire

NPC Rangers seem to continue following target if Rapid Fire has already started before the player cloaks. They even change the attack line to follow target even when the player is moving in stealth. Is this a bug in NPC stealth targeting? 76.6.2.65 03:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

If an enemy activates a skill before stealth is in effect, the attack will ignore stealth.--Relyk ~ talk > 05:08, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

So this applies to illusions chasing the thief and are about to shatter themselves? (meaning the mesmer has activated a shatter skill before the thief goes stealth)119.92.155.196 07:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

This is the property of any targetted channeled skills. Once the skill is activated, it will continue to channel on the target. A couple of things that I know of that can break a channel is interrupt or simply moving out of range. --Sir Vincent III 19:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Using traits/skills that increase boon duration

Does stealth count as a boon and if I used abilities or specced in longer boon duration, would stealth be affected as well? An example would be a Mesmer with Signet of Midnight and a cloaking ability such as Veil, The Prestige, or Mass Invisibility. 69.127.226.155 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

it is not a boon. 67.233.98.18 03:51, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Long term stealth?

To my knowledge, stealth effects are temporary, lasting only a few seconds and not being spammable without actively using initiative attacks. In my experience in WvW however, when a thief performs an ambush they are generally unseen until the moment they strike. How is this accomplished? Is there some stealth skill that grants long-term stealth? Is the culling removal not performing as advertised? 76.253.0.17 22:00, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

This kind of thief have been spoted many times in WvW. Your answer is there. As explained by Izzy in this video, it is intended. In gw1, the equivalent of thiefs (assassins), eventually became prevalent (long story...). The faction campaign was the only one that was still in stores long after the first and third campaign ceased to be shipped. It was the campaign that had the assassin profession. Yseron - 90.15.177.237 22:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Stealth stacks in duration, the infobox was being bad.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Attacking breaks stealth

That's incorrect. It's dealing direct damage that breaks stealth. If you miss a backstab, you can make another until you get a hit. --JonTheMon (talk) 20:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Stealth in Meeting the Asura

Apparently there's a different version of Stealth in Meeting the Asura.

ID 26106 [&BvplAAA=]

Description: Currently invisible. Temporarily removed while interacting with the world. Ends if you become detected.

Otherwise, it's the same. --Imry (talk) 09:34, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Feedback 2017/04/23

"Abilities that do not deal direct damage (like Caltrops, or the Traps which do not deal direct damage) will not break stealth, even though they apply damaging conditions."

This was changed a few patches back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.126.48.36 (talk) at 06:36, 23 April 2017‎ (UTC).

Don't know where you got that idea from. I just tested it and Caltrops (including the Uncatchable version) and non-damaging traps don't break stealth --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 07:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

He's referring to Game updates/2017-03-28#Thief - but only Needle Trap and Tripwire were modified. Ambush (skill) + Shadow Trap were unaffected, and non-trap skills weren't touched (oversight by anet imo) -Chieftain Alex 10:30, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Fleet Shadow isn't a trait anymore

Title says it all 141.135.147.206 14:19, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, I've removed it from the list. —Ventriloquist 14:38, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Chatter

That was me. I copied over the table and forgot to clear out the Might from it. But I assure you that I heard what I heard. My thief said it when he took a tumble and put on stealth as a consequence. SarielV 04:59, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's related to stealth. It also appears on the Skill page. Piffleberry (talk) 13:24, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Feedback 2020/12/09

The mesmer skills are missing from this page (traits are mentioned though). For example Decoy, Veil, Signet of Midnight, Mass Invisibility all grant Stealth. --212.96.34.73 11:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Mesmer skills grant  Hide in Shadows, even though the ingame tooltips say they grant stealth, when actually casting those skills and hovering over the effect it shows that it's actually not stealth but Hide in Shadows (effect). It functions identical to stealth but isn't stackable with stealth, which is why they aren't mentioned on the Stealth article. I agree that it should be mentioned somewhere (maybe in a See also section or something similar). Almdudler (talk) 12:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

I've tweaked the article a bit: (1) Added images to the top of Stealth and Hide in Shadows to help show the visual difference. (2) Added a section to the top of stealth describing similar but different effects (basically moved from the notes section where it was buried). (3) Removed two of the mesmer traits listd here - I don't believe they affect stealth. -Chieftain Alex 13:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Actually Dak helped test Escape Artist - it triggers on both Stealth and Hide in Shadows. -Chieftain Alex 13:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)