Talk:Sequence skill

The term of "sequence skill" is unofficial, and just came to my head, so this page could be moved and term renamed to something more fitting. Ideally, the skill sequence link on skill template should direct here, because chains are very distinct from other skills with sequence. Mediggo 07:32, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Toggle is a more common name I've seen used. -- aspectacle  08:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Toggle skills work like on/off. Marks could be toggle skills, though, since none of them seem to have any follow-up skills. Warrior's stances, for example, are toggle skills. Mediggo 08:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

"Paired" skills

Since sequence skills and chain skills sound similar and could be confusing, couldn't we call these "paired skills?" There's only ever two paired skills (they'd be chains if there were more), and it helps differentiate them from the three-skill chains. Just an idea. ~Ekko (talk) 18:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, to me, paired skills sounds like two equal skills, and not one skill you use to have replaced by another. Or something. I don't know, I'm not particularly happy with the term myself, I just picked it up from skill template which mentioned chains as sequence. Mediggo 18:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to call the "mechanic part" sequence (move the page to Sequence) and then simply list all the skills with sequence (aside from chains). Marks could also be left out, as using a mark will not allow use of another skill. The mechanic of triggering its effect early is tied to the skill/type itself (most likely) and resembles toggling. Mediggo 09:52, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Repeating sequence

So I've come to think that there may be two kinds of skills with sequence: Those that reset to original skill and those that do not.

For most cases, the sequence skill is reset; This happens when you destroy a minion by sacrificing it, when detonating a spell or attack (Orb of Light, Cluster Bomb, Ice Wall), releasing a mantra, or what happens when you finish any chain.

However, there are sequence skills like Rigor Mortis, Haunt and overcharging of turrets (which does not destroy them) that don't implicate they destroy or replace their original effect. Of course not all sequence skills which do not directly implicate that they destroy their origin effects can be repeated. For instance, Swap could be either way, capable of swapping positions with the clone once and then reverting back to Leap (skill). I'd like to know if any of this makes sense to anyone else and see if we can come to some kind of arrangement when it comes to sorting these kind of skills. Mediggo 18:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Missing skills

This list seems incomplete - Air Pocket surely belongs here? Mist Y 19:06, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

And Protector's Strike seems to have such an effect too. 0:18, 18 November 2013

Flesh Golem and Charge_(necromancer_skill) too. 17:16, 28/04/2014

Feedback 2018/05/17

The guardian spirit weapons are no longer Sequence skills. I feel like it should be fixed. --Emjakos (talk) 10:26, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Are Sequence skills actually a separate concept from Chain skills?

Imo the two are the same, except "chain" skill is just a subset of sequence skills, where the sequence skill is the weapon #1 auto-attack. I'm wondering if we could combine the two articles. -Chieftain Alex 00:01, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

What are chain skills and what are sequence skills? (Maybe this will help us to reach a solution.)

Both are a sequence of skills that share the same slot and are executed one after the other. The main difference, explained on the pages Chain and Sequence skill is that:

1. chain skills can be be interrupted for whatever reason, e.g. using another skill, cc, etc...
2. sequence skills cannot be really interrupted (of course some of them reset after some time) by using another skill, cc, etc...

Similar to Alex' point of view: the skills currently listed on the page Chain are simply autoattack chain skills, where autoattack skill stands for skills in slot 1. Anything else, currently called sequence skills, are chain skills outside the slot 1. So the current chain and the current sequence skills are both chain skills (or sequence skills, whatever we want to name it), just that the slot 1 chain skills have certain properties to make them feel like autoattack skills (e.g. punish the player when using another skill by resetting the chain).

So, I think we could merge this two pages and have the two sections "List of autoattack skills" and "List of non-autoattack skills" (or similar).

Preferable these tables could be created automatically, this would avoid such things as the out of date tag on the page Sequence skill or linking to outdated skills as Crippling Throw.

Most of the required properties are already available, at least for weapon and bundle skills. --Tolkyria (talk) 00:41, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

See User:Tolkyria/Sandbox5 for an example how the sequence skill merge (sections List of chain skills and List of sequence skills) with automatically created weapon tables would look like (please note that weapons can be only sorted alphabetically right now, there is no such property as Has weapon type number for skills yet). --Tolkyria (talk) 11:33, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't see the point of calling autoattack skills "chain skills" and everything else "sequence skills." For example, with Deadeye rifle, the auto is listed under "chain" skills but the other rifle skills are under "sequence" skills even though it is the exact same mechanic (flip over after kneeling). --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 12:10, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I haven't been precise enough. The example link I posted above is more about how it would look like in general and how we can create/modify the templates to achieve this, rather than being the final version. I simply split between skills in slot 1 and slot 2-5, which, as BuffsEverywhere mentioned, is not sufficient (e.g. Deadeye rifle 1 is not a chain autoattack skill), hence the overall skill selection should be adjusted.

To do so, and as I stated above: "Most of the required properties are already available", we still need some properties to receive the wanted result.

Possible required properties are:

1. Has skill activation type — more or less the skill infobox parameter activation type; maybe with a differentiation between what we currently are calling "chain" and "sequence" skills.
2. Has sort skill type — a silent infobox parameter that is set to all profession skills and allows to sort by skill type (the current skill type is not set for all skills, therefore sorting by Property:Has skill type in smw queries will exclude pages without an skill type); on default it inherits the type; if there is no type, it inherits the type from the parent skill to group sequence skills together, else it is set to "Unspecified" (or whatever for proper sorting).
3. Has skill sort order — number property to sort and group skills mostly for utility skills but also for some weapon skills, e.g. to sort dual wield skills (all slot 3), to group photon forge slot 1 skills (skill enhancement via trait creates new skills).

Of course, if you think what the heck am I talking about and simply want to copy the skills in order to merge the pages by hand (or want them to stay separated), please tell me, I might just be overshooting the actual goal. --Tolkyria (talk) 13:41, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

(reset indent) I'm in favor of merging the pages and automating the table but I think splitting between "chain" and "sequence" is unnecessary. I think we should have a page called List of flip-over skills (or similar) and have everything in one table. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 15:41, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

After playing around with chain skills and adding the prefix "Chain." to the skill description via the skill infobox, I think we should keep the page Chain for autoattack chain skills. Reason: the prefix in skill description should link to exactly what it's stating, here Chain, redirect to something else would just cause confusion.

However, I would not distinguish chain and sequence skills anymore, but, as suggested above several times, rather treat chain skills as a subset of sequence skills (or flip-over skills or whatever we want to call them). So no more in my eyes "constructed" differences.

I would suggest to collect the chain skill with the query [[Has skill activation type::Chain]] and the sequence skills with [[Has chain sequence position::>1]] (greater equal 1).

Therefore, I'm against merging the pages Chain and Sequence skill. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:01, 20 January 2020 (UTC)