Talk:Mystic Forge/Archive 3

Archive

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• Pre-Launch
• July-October 2012

Bags

With 5 leather bags in my inventory (not equipped) I have the option to put 1 of them into the forge. With 9 bags in my inventory I have the option to put 2 bags in the forge. Those 2 bags can combine with each other but nothing else. Anyone know any more about this? talk 09:49, 26 October 2012 (PDT)

With the bags you get from PvP Chests, at least, putting four of the same one into the forge gives you a random pvp item token. --Pie Formation 13:29, 26 October 2012 (PDT)

It'd be neat if there was a way to change a bag type (standard, invisible, crafting, etc) into another type through some mystic forge recipe. --Mooseyfate 23:52, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I just tested with 36 bags, and it still only let me put 2 in. talk 00:02, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Uhh, kinda new at this

Do items that you put in get consumed, never to get seen again? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.10.5.128 (talk) at 02:07, 30 October 2012‎ (UTC).

Yes, the four items are consumed and you are awarded with one (typically) better item. Poster of Leet 07:06, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Crest (?) Inverse recipe?

I've only had the opportunity to do this once so idk if the result is always somethin like this or what but, yea...the other night I put 4 medallions into the forge: 2 of the soldier, 1 of the shaman 1 of the rabid I believe. And what do I get, but a Sapphire Crystal. :o

Just thought I'd post as I don't think it was mentioned on wiki yet, as far as I could see. PalkiaX50 16:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The output item of those recipes is random. It can be a medallion or a green jewel, but it can also be a rare jewel or a crest. MindShock 18:49, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Basically, it appears that universal upgrades (medallions/crests/etc.) and gemstones (not the upgraded jewels) were combined into a single pot for the purposes of item-type-munging in the forge. Where most pots are specific to a single item type - e.g. 4 axes will always return an axe, they'll never return a sword or a rune - this pot combines two types, probably simply to increase the range of possible inputs/outputs. —Dr Ishmael 19:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Does this imply 4 jewels -> jewel? From the research page it also seems doubloons are counted as gemstones. Any indication on passion flowers or snowflakes? 76.253.0.17 02:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

All tiers of snowflake are crafting materials; Passion flowers are gems. —Dr Ishmael 02:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

New Philosopher's Stone req?

I just promoted a stack of mithril ingots to ori ingots, it required 10 Philosopher's Stones, not 6. Anyone else have that happen? Is ingot promotion different than ore promotion? Wombatt 05:10, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Had the same result converting bolts of silk to bolts of gossamer. Wombatt 02:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that there are 2 different recipes. One for promoting RAW material (i.e. Mithril Ore) and one for promoting REFINED material (i.e. Mithril Ingot). The raw formula uses 5 stones, but the refined formula uses 10 stones. I just tried this with Mithril and Orichalcum in both ingot and ore forms. The ingot upgrade required 10 stones and produced 22 Ori ingots, the ore upgrade required 5 stones and produced 12 Ori ore. Now, I know this is hardly enough to establish this as a rule, so I would suggest someone perform other Raw/Refined comparisons with different materials to establish if this is a rule or not.Fbody (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Crafting material promotion

(moved from main article)

This doesn't seem to work promoting t5 to t6 materials, did Anet change the recipe?

Tried promoting Potent Blood to Powerful Blood but the forge doesn't accept Pile of Crystalline Dust, I've even watched youtube videos of people having success with this exact recipe (50 Potent Blood, 1 Powerful Blood, 5 Crystalline Dust, 5 Phil. Stones), but can't forge it when I attempt to. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.68.207.157 (talk • contribs) at 16:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC).

I just tried it today with 50 large claws, 1 vicious claw, 5 crystalline dust, and 5 philosopher stones and it worked just fine. Maybe try switching the order of the items? When i put the vicious claw first it wouldnt let me for some reason. 68.5.188.196 02:25, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Anyone know about this one?

6 Philosopher's Stone + 1 Obsidian Shard + 1 Glob of Ectoplasm + 1 Mystic Coin = Hidden Treasure (that small sack that comes with an orb).

1 Fractal Relic + 1 Mystic Coin + 5 Vial of Condensed Mists Essence + 1 Glob of Ectoplasm = Glob of Coagulated Mists Essence.

1 Fractal Relic + 1 Mystic Coin + 5 Glob of Coagulated Mists Essence + 1 Glob of Ectoplasm = ???

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.26.92.59 (talk).

Not familiar with the second one, but the first is the standard one-clover Mystic Clover recipe. The clover recipe is a gamble on what it will produce, but it's almost always T6 materials. You get clovers approximately 33% of the time (you need 77 of them for the Gift of Fortune). Fbody (talk) 13:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Legendary

Can you make a legendary item by putting 4 random exotic items? Yes4me 22:20, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I have heard that you can make a precursor but it requires exotics and rng luck.- Zesbeer 22:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

In short, no. You can make legendary precursors if you're really lucky though. talk 21:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Clover 10x recipe confirmation

I can confirm that you can get 10x pile of putrid essence from the 10x clover recipe. had a very unhappy guildie pull it earlier today :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.128.88.51 (talk) at 03:24, 13 December 2012 (UTC).

Superior Sigils

I can confirm that some sigils that used to work in the forge don't anymore, no idea why... Mainly sigils of +10% dmg VS X moster and also Superior Sigil of Peril, even though Superior Sigil of Agony works just fine. This might be because they disallowed usage of low cost sup sigils to make the ones that cost more at the time, or they just banned these alltogether. Also some superior runes don't work, mostly the ones from dungeons (Superior Rune of the Forge) but someone who has more of them needs to confirm this. 95.180.84.110 18:00, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

You can't use 4 exotic sigils to create other exotic sigils, sigils you can use in mystic forge are for legendary weapons and you can't craft a legendary weapon with +10% damages vs X, that's the reason why you thought you could use some sigils and not others. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.157.24.167 (talk • contribs) at 16:09, 8 April 2013 (UTC).

Town Clothes

What do you get if you put in Town Clothes? I didn't submit them because I'm not willing to be permanently stuck in the Wintersday outfit. Ramei Arashi 03:20, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

They appear to act as level 0 armor. But... I only had 3 items, and used a Lucky Rabbit's Foot for the fourth. Got a level 10 shield back. Hoping for new town clothes soon on Gem Store at least if not TP :( Professor Privy

Common Mat Promotion

Changed the value from 50 base materials to 250. The section was already contradictory with the box saying 50 and the text below saying 250. I am trying to promoted silk to gossamer at and it requires 250 silk, 1 gossamer, 5 philo stones, 5 dust 24.52.246.245 16:41, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Just tried common material promotion of Silk bolts to Gossamer bolts and it required 10 Philosopher stones, vice 5. 250xBolt of silk, 1 x Bolt of Gossamer, 5 x Piles of Incandescent Dust, 10 x Philosopher Stones. --Alesain 10:34, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I can verify this. Refined mats (bolts, ingots) seem to take 2x the stones as raw (ore, scraps) Wombatt 03:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I just tried to repeat this recipe and the forge would not take it. After the second item is placed, the fourth item goes dark. Putting the fourth item in will not allow the Forge button to activate. I've tried every combination and I cannot get it to work to make more gossamer. Any ideas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.172.97.94 (talk) at 02:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC).

Transmute

Should the word 'transmute' be used with reference to use of the Mystic Forge? I think this will cause confusion with Transmutation. --Combatter 20:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Research with Obsidian Shards?

It seems they changed the description "This item is used to craft legendaries.", so I guess it's part of new discoveries. I've tried one but I'm missing a 4th component:
Obsidian Shard + Mystic Coin + Onyx Lodestone + ??? = ??? 177.16.51.114 06:27, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Cragstone? --Felbryn 06:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Probably, thanks! --177.16.51.114 19:38, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Armor Box / Satchel Recipes

I'm a bit confused by the "armor acquired by karma and random world drop, cannot be used to make a recipe" part. What other armour types are there? Is this basically for dungeon armour rewards only? --Combatter 11:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

The section says that it only works with crafted chest pieces. In other words, this doesn't let you craft any armor that wouldn't otherwise be craftable, it just lets you craft a complete set as a package rather than crafting each piece individually. --Felbryn 02:46, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Salvage Kits in Mystic Forge recipes

I've seen edit wars on at least 3 different pages over whether certain recipes use 1 salvage kit or 25 salvage kits. I originally thought that someone got the recipe wrong on one page and various wiki users were blindly overwriting one page with data from another without verifying the recipe, but now I think it's a result of confusion about the difference between stacks and uses.

If I have a stack of 10 items, I can split that into two stacks of 5; if I have two stacks of 10 items, I can merge them into one stack of 20. AFAIK, the maximum stack size is always 250.

Salvage kits and gathering tools do not have stacks, they have multiple uses. The number in the corner is the same, but they can't be split or combined. No number of mining picks with 1 use left can be turned into a mining pick with 100 uses left.

If someone wants to mess with the mystic recipes so that they say something like "1 Master Salvage Kit (with 25 uses left)", be my guest. In the mean time, I nominate that all mystic recipes should specify the number of items, not the number of uses, and we can put a note somewhere saying that mystic recipes always require their items to have maximum uses remaining (unless someone has information to the contrary). --Felbryn 22:52, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

As indicated by my edits and discussion on Magistrella's talk page, I agree with all the points. 22:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

We got our stuff together ~ Already done the notes as far as i can think of Mystic Recipes using Salvage Kits Magistrella 23:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Recipe list change suggestion

I'd like to suggest a change in the way we list Mystic Forge recipes.

Having slowly evolved from what we knew in the betas (that is just a handful of material conversion recipes) the current layout is rather unwieldy. It's a mess of infoboxes, notes and formulae where links to other lists are completely buried under, and the organization is very chaotic: Fractal Capacitors are on the main page, while quivers and books are in Other Items and Pendants are on both places just to be sure; weapons are on three separate pages alone; legendary gifts or upgrading ascended rings, quivers and books aren't even mentioned, and so on. It just takes way too longer to find a recipe for quivers or infusions or even Mystic Salvage Kit than it really should.

I suggest having only basic information about the Forge on this page and have links to 3 subpages (because there's too many recipes), clearly indicated and organized, something like this: material recipes, equipment and other items. Because recipe infoboxes aren't good for a large volume of recipes, I'd use the easier-to-read table format, and I'd put all related items together.

Opinions? Ideas? Constructive criticism? All is welcome. 17:27, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, people do not come to this page to actually find out about a specific item but rather to find what you could do with the mystic Forge. I'd keep the transmutation boxes for fine and crafting materials tho as they are pretty useful, follow a destinctive formular pattern and im not sure if they are listed on all crafting materials (i know they are on T6 fine as i reworked those pages, rest idk yet but working on it). For the linking to the other pages it should be enough if we use subcategories leading to the respective pages and maybe keep one generic example recipe with each link like:

{{mystic
| name = Versatile Infusions
| link = Infusion
| icon = Recipe Sheet.png
| generic = yes
| mat-1 = T6 Fine Crafting Materials
| genmat-1 = yes
| amt-1 = 250
| mat-2 = Passion Flower
| amt-2 = 100
| mat-3 = Philosopher's Stone
| amt-3 = 100
| mat-4 = Mystic Coin
| amt-4 = 50
}}
{{mystic
| name = T6 Fine Material Upgrade
| icon = Recipe Sheet.png
| generic = yes
| mat-1 = T5 Fine Crafting Materials
| genmat-1 = yes
| amt-1 = 50
| mat-2 = T6 Fine Crafting Material
| amt-2 = 1
| genmat-2 = yes
| mat-3 = Philosopher's Stone
| amt-3 = 5
| mat-4 = Pile of Crystalline Dust
| amt-4 = 5
}}

etc. etc. I'd only do that for reciepes that have multiple possibilities tho, if you'd do it for Infusions for example you'd need two generic recipes as the defensive ones are different to the offensive ones. For weapons crafted in the forge we should have sufficient lists on the related pages and we shouldnt need to list anything here except for a link to it. So much from me for the time, football time Magistrella 17:58, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually, avoiding recipe infoboxes on this page was one of the primary motivations for the change. Infoboxes are meant to be in the corner of the page with simple statistical information; disregarding that I don't think recipes are exactly infobox material, it's borderline acceptable in a section for infoboxes alone as long as there's not too many of them (can you imagine a page like Dessert done solely by infoboxes?). But when you start mixing infoboxes with text, it gets all drowned among the boxes and all links go with it. Right now, finding the link for Other items is sort of a minigame, with challenge mode if you don't remember where to look and hardcore mode if you don't even know it exists. Leaving a generic recipe infobox for every link wouldn't change anything about that.

And what exactly did you mean by "For weapons crafted in the forge we should have sufficient lists on the related pages"? What are related pages for, say, Naegling and how would one get to find it? Or you mean separate everything that has something in common to their own pages, like the Mystic weapons? What about guardian spirit weapon skins then? Or purple glowing weapons? Conjure weapon skins? Maybe even weapons that look like a drink? I think that once you list Forged exotic weapons, you should have all of them for comparison, and I'm not the only one; otherwise it would be like saying that we don't need List of thief skills, because all the information is on the related pages like Dagger, Venom or Elite skill and those are (or could be) linked to from Thief after all. A comprehensive complete list is very useful and it still doesn't mean you can't have some of that information anywhere else.

I could agree with doing that to legendary weapons using {{main|Legendary weapon}}, though, because the info on these pages wouldn't be enough to craft one anyway. Furthermore, the material conversions can stay in the generalized format, maybe like this:

Materials created	Ingredient 1	Ingredient 2	Ingredient 3	Ingredient 4
? Tier A+1 common materials	250 tier A materials of the same type	1 desired tier A+1 material	5 tier A+1 dusts	A Philosopher's Stones

It would be a bit harder to process and to give estimates on the numbers received, but easier to navigate, so I'm fine with it. 11:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

With the Lists on the related pages i meant recipes on the weapons pages and "maybe" something like a compilation page for weapons that are generated with a specific recipe. atm this page is a mess listing dozens of examples what could be made without actually mentioning half of what is possible. The Other Items page is more useful then the actual forge page but, as you said, it is hidden quite good because it drowns between stuff that is mentioned on it but somehow is also on the Mystic Forge Main Page. The Infusion part could go, we got an Infusion page, The Pendants could go, they are all listed on the "other items" page (suddenly i feel like the name is just wrong, maybe something more like "compilation of Mystic Forge recipes" would be better...), The Mystic weapons mention could go, just leave a Link to the Mystic weapons section under Weapons on the "other items" page. Ascended Backpieces could go, they should go under the backpiece section of the "other items" page as well etc etc, i could list them all but in the end it comes down in a nutshell: 90% of the stuff listed on the main page shouldnt be here.

As i am still compiling recipes for my Fine crafting materials im rather busy myself there atm so dont take this as a "you have to do it that way" but rather as a "for me it would be well-arranged" if there wouldn't be stuff listed double and triple. I'll create a sandbox on my page to play arround maybe we both can sort this page out. Magistrella 17:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Just drafted a rough look of it while watching TV here User:Magistrella/Sandbox/Mystic_Forge. Before i could actually take that much out there would be many sites to be created, like for every tier of Rare Crafting Material (seeing as there is a disambiguation page for Lodestones but not for Cores or less) and a page for Upgraded Siege Blueprints listing all recipes so we can put that in just as a link etc etc.Magistrella 17:57, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I definitely agree that this page should be cleaned up. In fact, I was planning to be even more radical, remove the sections Materials, Equipment and Consumables altogether, leave only basic information about what the Forge is, where to find it and possibly some lore behind it, rewrite Crafting section a bit and add the links to the recipe lists there. Now that I think of it, however, this would make the page very short indeed; while I personally wouldn't mind that, because I don't want to add more stuff for the sake of adding more stuff and I'm not sure if mentioning just some recipes on this page is a good idea as it could make you think that's all there is, it might bother others. Whatever we do here, though, I still think we should have a complete comprehensive list where all recipes are mentioned or at least linked to similarly to the legendary weapons discussed above. A similar situation is on pages like Artificer; sure, you could leave consumables, potions, sigils, crafting components, staves and whatnot to the related pages, but this way you get the big picture of what you can actually do with the discipline.

Now the question is how many of the recipes we'd list directly and how many would be mentioned and forwarded to a different page which would list them instead, again like the legendaries. We could do that to gifts (Mystic Clovers could be considered a material conversion), infusions (but not the crest recipe), siege weapons, minis and tonics. If we did it to a lot of sections all the separate pages could even merge together into one (or even to this page), but at the same time it would scatter the information across the wiki. 11:43, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, another problem is that most people probably will not be able to understand what these formulas on the Material Upgrade Page means except you give them a concrete Example, if we removed the Material Page to a page just for that we could 1. List all the transmutations or 2. List an example for every tier of transmutation. We could even have most of the recipes here with an expandable sortable table but atm we only got the plain ones like those on the T6 materials i made (Vial of Powerful Blood for example), the problem about those lists is, if something gets changed you have to change it in EVERY table because it doesnt draw the recipes from a database compared to what we have for crafting lists: {{Recipe/Requires}} which draws recipes from the recipe dpl. The Equipment i left on the sandbox was plainly because i was too lazy to further clean up because you'd get the point with the materials ^^". If we put all recipes away we need a well structured comprehensive List like equipment -> weapons -> mystic weapons / mists weapons / misc, Crafting Materials -> Legendary materials/Upgrading common -> t1/t2/t3/t4/t5/t6 etc. On the Mainpage we could leave the List of what you can do without having tables, instead we list direct links to the tables on the comprehensive page. Magistrella 12:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Just noticed what maybe is a recipe problem. The Wool -> Cotton transmutation says it uses 5 Philosopher's Stones but the Formula says desired tier x amount which would only make it 3. This goes for other recipes as well, so two possibilities a) the 5 is wrong the formula is correct or b) vice versa, ill try with leather later Magistrella 15:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Tested personally and i can say that the recipes are wrong. Formulas are all correct so dont copy paste the recipe errors ^^ Magistrella 16:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that says quite a bit about how much do people pay attention to the examples. ^_^ Anyway, while still on this topic, I added some example recipes to the materials table, according to the formulae, to give a better idea of what they mean; I'd say that listing all possible recipes one by one isn't really viable, there's just too many of them (125, if I'm not mistaken), and the tiered approach that I had in the beginning isn't significantly more understandable either, in my opinion, but then again, I don't have a problem with the formula anyway.

I also tried out the single page approach, which looks more feasible than I thought initially; the tables could also be expandable.

Regarding DPL, I don't have any real experience with it. The problem I see with it is that some recipes, like Prototype Fractal Capacitor, Mystic Salvage Kit, food tray or the quaggan mini need special attention, the kind that I'm not sure if DPL could provide. But if anyone has any idea how to make it work, feel free to discuss it. 17:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

If no one has any objections, I'll implement the above single page approach in a few days; the current page is a complete mess that fails to clearly and concisely deliver the wanted information, which even more people will be looking for now with the daily Mystic Forgesmith, and it would give us at least something complete and comprehensive to work with. 21:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

It looks cleaner than what we have now, but the recipe lists are still burdensome. I was planning to move weapons made from Mystic Forge recipes to Unique weapon and the Mystic, Foefire, and of the Mists weapon sets to their own pages.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:37, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I partially agree with that. It's definitely quite bulky, but there wasn't really a lot of feedback. Nevertheless, we certainly need a complete list somewhere. One alternative is to hide the bigger tables into expandable boxes, something like this; another option is to leave the lists entirely on subpages as was my original suggestion; and yet another possibility is to separate even more sections onto their related pages and link to them, similarly to tonics and legendaries.

However I strongly believe that the Mystic, "Foefire" and "Mists" weapons should be listed together with all the other exotic weapons (the latter 2 aren't even official names, if I'm not mistaken, you could call those "sets" many ways), either in the same table or at least in separate sections on a page just for those. If you want to find out what kind of exotic weapons you can forge, why should you have to look at 4 pages with the inability to easily compare their costs? It's confusing and unintuitive, as is the term "Unique weapon" itself. 14:04, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

However you separate the weapon recipes (or don't), I'd like to suggest that the attributes raised (or equivalent prefix) should be included as a column in the table. It's the one concrete bit of info that isn't there already, it shouldn't take up much space, and I believe a few of those recipes could arguably be cheaper than conventional crafting (depending on market fluctuations and how you value skill points), so looking for specific stats (not just a skin you like) seems like something someone might reasonably want to do. --Felbryn 22:17, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

It has been a while since I last suggested this change but I recently found myself browsing this page and once again I thought it's incredibly chaotic and disorganized and could be very much improved. So I took my previous suggestion and made a new version that I'm actually rather happy with. I'd implement it straight away but after all it's a pretty big change so I'm putting it here first. As per the attribute distribution, I'm sure it could be added into the tables but I haven't yet looked into it, such as whether all weapons follow a certain prefix. 12:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

It looks great. Implement it now, and get relyk on making the semantic recipe box. -Chieftain Alex 12:26, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Take the "sortable" off the tables - they're small enough that they don't need it, and on the material promotion, it actually screws things up. Otherwise, I like it. —Dr Ishmael 14:43, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

And on the items subpage I think that the tables would look better if they were all the same width too. -Chieftain Alex 14:53, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Done. Some of the tables still seem to have different widths even when they're styled the same way (at least in Chrome) but that shouldn't really be a major issue. 21:09, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Mixing item levels

Generic recipes typically require four pieces of equipment of the same rarity and will create a random piece of equipment of that rarity whose level is 5-12 levels higher

This statement is ambiguous since you are able to use 4 items of different levels. Has there been any observation as to how the resulting item's level is determined? Is it based on an average? 76.253.0.17 06:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

It's based on the average. 75.36.181.195 07:10, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Percent chance to upgrade rarity of runes and sigils

Hi all, I spent about 10-15 gold buying major runes and sigils and putting them into the mystic forge. Out of all the trials it seems the percent chance to get a superior rune is much closer to 5% than it is 20% (mine came to around 4.67% so I rounded up). I have heard this 20% used quite often so I was hoping to make a fair amount of money on the TP but that did not work out too well. Anyhow, hope this helps others and that we can continue trying these to see what the "true" percent chance is ^_^ Fresh Berry Smoothie 17:39, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I made a google spreadsheet that anyone with the link can edit. Hopefully there aren't too many incorrect values inputted here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnfO8DyHx5LRdHEwdlpscEYyLUwyODM0OU5hWjA3QkE#gid=0 Seems to be closer to 20% now. I will reverse my edits on this page :( Fresh Berry Smoothie 22:46, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

You can google for posts on Guru, Reddit, the official forums and elsewhere. Any published results I've seen for 100s of trials show something close to 20% for runes, sigils, minis, dyes, gemstone+, and even for weapons and armor.75.37.17.240 00:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I am not seeing anything close to 20% either for runes and sigils specifically. I think it's perfectly feasible that a chance for promotion is dependent on the item type. It's worth noting that there is a significant level gap between each rarity of runes/sigils, and this may factor into it. It may be more akin to trying to produce a rare item from low-level greens. Can you link another study that has the same focus and depth on this particular type of forging? 76.253.2.43 11:07, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

T5 > T6 dust promotion

Can confirm that the max you can get is 40, just crafted incandescent dust into crystalline --Dak393 04:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

The New Recipe Tables

The new tables are an abomination. They are actually -more- difficult to read and understand than previous incarnations. Further, they defeat the purpose of using tables (which is to make reading related data easier) in the first place. They are a good idea.. but they are extremely poorly executed as they try to cram too much only slightly related information together as if they're related. Saving space should not win out over readability. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.228.7.229 (talk).

The first table on the page looks confusing to the uninformed (e.g. me) - and so needs changing - but I think the rest isn't any worse than the previous layout. -Chieftain Alex 09:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the overall layout, all that has really changed is that the information scattered across infoboxes was simply moved to tables which had already been in use for equipment and miscellaneous recipes on the subpage anyway. That wasn't primarily a change for the sake of saving space but a change for the sake of alignment of information as well as, yes, grouping of related recipes. This should somewhat help with navigation; just as a quick example, in the previous version, weapons were described in the infobox for Mystic Pistol wedged between Armor Box Recipe Sheets and Infusions as well as in the subpage linked to in Other Items 5 sections lower, while trinkets spanned 9 different infoboxes and one bullet list on the main page alone. I admit that I just can't see how the tables made this any worse.

However, what I do agree with is that the material promotion table is still very confusing; unfortunately, those recipes are confusing in the game to begin with. There's too many of them, they (almost) follow certain formulas and they have random yields. Previously, disregarding the missing refined material promotion, this section was covered by 5 example recipes infoboxes (which I would say wasn't immediately obvious anyway, but that's beside the point), with the formulas and mention of Mystic Binding Agents in text scattered in between. The formulas used in the current tables are in fact the same ones (completed with the missing ones), only shifted by one so that the reference variable is the tier of the final result rather that of one of its components, which I personally thought made a bit more sense but maybe that's just me.

The way I see it, we have these options for the way to describe the information: we could list all 148 of those recipes separately, which would alleviate the problem with formulas but would make that section very long and I'm not so sure whether it would be much easier to read either; or we generalize all the similar recipes into archetypes with formulas for the exact numbers as we do now. Alternatively, we could group the recipes by tiers (as in my opinion variable tiers are the major problem in the formulas) but that didn't work out that well either. Or maybe we could stick to the current formulas but add an expandable section under each group with all the individual recipes listed in detail.

Perhaps someone else has a much better idea though. I'm certainly open for suggestions but I'm sure we can agree that "this is horrible" isn't exactly constructive criticism. 15:57, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Recipe table template

It's not displaying correctly for the recipes that use the same item multiple times (the tonic recipes). I was hoping for a more horizontal, compact template too, but I don't know how to make templates yet. Sol Solus (talk) 21:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I think making it horizontally oriented would just make more problems than it would solve. It doesn't really make the tables any easier to read or use, it just makes them take less vertical space, which isn't really an important goal to accomplish in this case. That said, I think it would be good to perhaps move the recipe lists to subpages. Psycho Robot (talk) 21:16, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

listing all the tonics here is a bit meh, I don't see why they're not still on a subpage.

I did however bring up the issue that you've outlined on Template talk:Recipe#Mystic forge tonic recipes, where I've outlined why the incorrect recipe happens. I've suggested an easy solution there, and a pretty-disgusting-to-wikicode version -Chieftain Alex 17:11, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

the layout before relyk smw'd it was alright, but the tables are very long at the moment. -Chieftain Alex 17:15, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't like horizontal layout at all because it's really hard to read.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

until we fix mystic recipes with repeated elements, I'm reverting the tonic section. (matches rest of page anyway >.>) -Chieftain Alex 17:33, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

How do you guys like it now? Sol Solus (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I still dislike it. It doesn't really make anything easier to read, it just makes it take less space vertically, which is unimportant now that its on a subpage. In fact I would argue that it makes things harder to read, since it puts the ingredients further apart from each other. Psycho Robot (talk) 18:33, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

...Now? Sol Solus (talk) 19:49, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

What did you change? I was looking at the mystic tonics and I didn't see any changes since the last time I said how I liked it. Are you referring to what's on the mystic forge page now? If so it looks like all you've done is recreated the standard table without the discipline and rating columns. If that's the case, then I think what really needs to take place is that there needs to be a parameter in the recipe list template to remove those two columns. That way the list remains automatically populating and fully integrated into the SMW without having extra clutter. Psycho Robot (talk) 20:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I preserved Chieftain Alex's revert of the tonic table in moving it to the /Miscellaneous page. It's a temp solution while duplicate ingredients are being filtered. Yes, I could manually make that table mimic the standard table, but I don't know if a template update later will make my work pointless.

On the other tables, some contain generic or non-standard recipes that won't work with recipe list row, such as "PvP equipment" and the multiple recipes for Glob of Coagulated Mists Essence and Mystic Clover, so I had to recreate the standard table. I can still add the Rarity column. Chief also added "|source=Mystic forge" to recipe list header which seems to be the current solution to hide those 2 columns, I know the template did it automatically yesterday but seems not to now due to problems on other pages. Sol Solus (talk) 22:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Escape from LA location change

Not really a main user on here, but I made a quick mention that the MF is at Vigil Keep. Cheers. 24.255.56.30 05:27, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Promotion / Demotion

Quote: "Ascended materials from the Fractals of the Mists can be both promoted and demoted." Yet there is no explanation of what these qualities are or why one would chose one or the other. There's some costly items involved, so it might be nice to know what your choice would provide to you, or if you should choose the other. How has this not been asked before??? --Gold Recluse (talk) 21:16, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

The automation of the recipe tables got broken recently when someone altered the (unofficial) recipe types of all the promotion/demotion Mystic Forge recipes. I've brute-forced the tables into functioning again. —Dr Ishmael 21:45, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Doc, that does look better. But still, What do those words mean? What do they do to the weapons/armor they are applied to? --Gold Recluse (talk) 21:55, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Uh, what words? Where do weapons/armor come into this? The section is only about the "X of Y Mists Essence" materials and how you can transmogrify (to use the jeweler's phrasing) them between the different tiers. —Dr Ishmael 21:59, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

The words "Promotion / Demotion." How do those qualities in the materials affect the items they are applied to? --Gold Recluse (talk) 22:04, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

It means turning them into the next level, i.e. turns vials into globs and globs into shards. Demotion is the opposite. — snograt 22:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

They describe the recipe, not the item. You are promoting/demoting the mists essence materials between vial<->glob<->shard to get the specific ones you need for (most likely) crafting infused equipment. —Dr Ishmael 22:37, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Sorry if I was daft, but I searched the wiki many ways and did not find those terms defined anywhere. --Gold Recluse (talk) 23:56, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Location

Well, it's finally back in Lion's Arch, but not in the Mystic Plaza. Are we going to update this, or just assume that it will end up back in its old spot? Took me ages to find it last night, and now I'm at work I can't remember where it was :D — snograt 09:59, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

It is, indeed, at Mystic Plaza. However, that circular area where it used to be has no POI now, and only Guild services reside there. The POI with that name has moved south-west a bit. On the map it has a bluish kite-looking shape underlaying Artificing and Jewel-crafting stations. Miyani shows only as a Merchant icon on the map. --Gold Recluse (talk) 20:48, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it didn't dawn on me that they'd actually moved Mystic Plaza (or the name, at least) until today. Sheesh. — snograt 21:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I can understand the confusion the Mystic Plasa Point of intrest page does need to be updated. I shall update it. Anzenketh (talk) 02:51, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for updating this. I suppose ANet moved the POI rather than renaming it so people wouldn't have to unlock a new POI to get 100% map completion. That gets annoying, especially since most people don't realize their map could still show 100% completed until they enter the zone again. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 08:38, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Confusion continues!

An unnamed editor had changed the location info to "at the Sanctum Harbor point of interest" (which is a waypoint, btw.) I have corrected that to include both the POI and the WP locators. --Gold Recluse (talk) 14:57, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

"Toilet"?

True, many players use that term in jest, but does this player-culture item fit with the purpose of the main page? --Gold Recluse (talk) 15:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I think that it depends on the purpose. There are a larger number of Unofficial Terms generally however they are not derogatory. For example "Bubbles" is mentioned regarding the Deep Sea Dragon I think this case may have crossed a line however. Anzenketh (talk) 15:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

The purpose of the wiki is to document everything about the game - the things ANet puts in as well as what players call them. If many players use the term, it definitely warrants a note on the page - and probably a redirect page as well! -Auron 16:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

And no, this definitely did not cross the line. A very common term from the first Guild Wars was bitch role, a term describing any number of midline classes who had hybrid support builds specifically for PvP. It was sort of in jest, lightheartedly insulting those players that couldn't do frontline or backline, but it was so descriptive that the term stuck. Eventually people would simply ask for anyone who could play bitch role in alliance chat when forming groups. It was a very real part of the game, just as much as the builds themselves. So we documented it! An insulting term for a dedicated money sink like the Forge could be much, much worse than "toilet." -Auron 16:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

As long as the term is given context, players will find the information useful and consider it appropriate for the article.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:16, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Material Promotion Return Quantity Ranges

According to the data from this reddit research, returns on common material promotion have been as high as 197, and fine material promotion as low as 5. I suggest updating the ranges to 40-200 and 5-40. Sol Solus (talk) 03:49, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Map icon

Today I noticed a little icon for the MF on the world map. Could someone extract it? ~ Sanna 09:36, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

It's already on this page, albeit very small. Top-right corner of the infobox. --Ventriloquist 10:42, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Toy Tonics

if you put 3 Wintersday toy tonics in the Mystic Forge + 2 Mystic coins you get snowflakes. I only did it twice, but I doubt that there is a chance for an endless potion. Most likely just a way to get rid of the potions and turning them into more 'useful' items. I tried it with two sets of different tonics and it gave a different type of snowflake. I don't have enough mystic coins to experiment with it however to see if the type of snowflakes are related to what exactly you throw in. 184.3.176.8 02:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Mixing Equipment Types

The equipment section states that "The output will be as specific as the input is." I just put in 4 medium armor items and received Strong Apprentice Gloves which are light armor. So this needs to be either clarified or tested. (For example will a combination of medium/light/heavy helmets always yield a helmet? will mixed weapons always yield some sort of weapon?) - Temerity (talk) 05:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

For armor, if using mixed weights (ex: 3 medium + 1 light) the yield's weight is randomized. If you vary the type (ex: mixing armor with weapons) you will randomize the yield's type (unless I'm mistaken, only the types you use are possible--you won't get a ring from mixing armor and weapons). If you use all of the same kind of armor (ex: 4 medium gloves) or all the same kind of weapon (ex: 4 daggers) the yield's type will be the same as the components. The claim that output will be as specific as the input is correct except for armor weights, but only when mixing weights. This probably should be clarified, assuming I'm not mistaken somewhere. Kruhljak (talk) 17:17, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Welp, I'll rescind my statement about not getting rings from mixing armor and weapons, as I just got a ring from 2 weapons and 2 armor pieces, and presumably accessories and amulets are also possible. So much for that. Kruhljak (talk)

Just put in 40 rare Lvl 80 swords and got: 1 Exotic Sword, 1 Rare Hammer, 1 Rare Pistol, 7 Rare Swords, all level 80. Separ (talk) 00:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I put in 4 light armor and got a medium out. 76.253.2.43 14:26, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

I was pretty sure I put in 4 medium pieces yesterday and got a piece of light armor out of it. ... or I'm going nuts. -Chieftain Alex 14:35, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Yep, exotic heavy gauntlets from 4 exotic medium weight items. -Chieftain Alex 13:37, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Odd Results

I've turned out a couple things via the Forge that are inconsistent with the norm. I received a masterwork soulbound (karma) item from 4 basic leather armor pieces. Later, I received (several times) L79 items from 2 L80's + L50 + L35, which is roughly a L61 average. 79-61 = +18, which is well outside the stated +12 maximum. Haven't seen these quirks noted elsewhere, so there it is for what it's worth. Kruhljak (talk) 17:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Soulbound karma items are nothing new, they've always been on the list of MF outputs. —Dr Ishmael 17:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not that it was soulbound, it's that it was a masterwork from three white pieces of leather. I understood that promotion of rarity was only one level, never two. Perhaps there's an exception with soulbound items, or the occurance is just extremely rare. Kruhljak (talk) 15:56, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Revisiting my own remarks a year and a half later: Looks like forging vis a vis soulbound karma items is more wonky than I thought. I dropped four L53 rares into the forge and got a L55 fine karma item out of it. So, not only does it promote upwards into karma items oddly, it can actually promote downwards into them. For the record, the input was 3 L53 rare weapons plus 1 L53 rare armor item, all soulbound (regular dropped items, not karma items). The item returned was a pair of fine L55 Leather Excavator's Gloves. This may have something to do with the RNG not adding enough levels to the average input items to reach the next level where rare (or exotics, presumably) exist, which in this case would be L60, so it just falls through to a karma item that's somewhere near the actual RNG item level result, above or below. Might be it could've fallen back to a L55 rare, but can't say until it happens. [edit: yep, it'll do that, too] Could also be Zommoros is just drunk on all that Elonian wine he's hoarded. Kruhljak (talk) 09:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I can't tell if the recent issues with unexpected outputs from the MF are bugs or changes that were implemented. That is the problem with RNG mechanics. When you got the +18 upgrade, did it happen to be a trinket? I noticed the level range is wider for those, presumably because they aren't well-distributed across levels and more prone to rounding or sampling bias. 76.253.2.43 14:36, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of trinkets - ever noticed that you can only flush a maximum of three at a time? Can't do 4 rings, amulets, accessories or any combination of these - at least one piece must be armor. — snograt 18:52, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Recipe Sheet Ingredients

I was creating some forge API-esque recipes and did some research regarding how many coins, crystal, and wine is required for each crafting rating to make armor and feast recipes. Thought it would be a worthwhile thing to add to the wiki, but not sure how/if you guys want it displayed, so I'm puting it here ^_^
Something to note: bowl of garlic spinach sautee is rating 75 and requires 17 coin to make feast of garlic spinach sautee, both of those numbers are below the current stated minimums. same for banana bread and garlic bread and probably other rating 75's (not sure about all of them). I couldn't find any lower than that that would work.

box/satchel of armors:
rating / coin / wine / crystal
0 / 2 / 1 / 4
25 / 5 / 1 / 5
50 / 8 / 1 / 6
75 / 11 / 1 / 7
100 / 14 / 2 / 8
125 / 17 / 2 / 9
150 / 20 / 2 / 10
175 / 23 / 2 / 11
200 / 26 / 3 / 12
225 / 29 / 3 / 13
250 / 32 / 3 / 14
275 / 35 / 3 / 15
300 / 38 / 4 / 16
325 / 41 / 4 / 17
350 / 44 / 4 / 18
375 / 47 / 4 / 19
400 / 50 / 5 / 20

feast/tray/pot/giant of food:
rating / coin / wine / crystal
75 / 17 / 6 / 9
100 / 17 / 6 / 9
125 / 17 / 6 / 9
150 / 26 / 9 / 12
175 / 26 / 9 / 12
200 / 26 / 9 / 12
225 / 35 / 10 / 15
250 / 35 / 12 / 15
275 / 35 / 12 / 15
300 / 47 / 16 / 19
325 / 47 / 16 / 19
350 / 47 / 16 / 19
375 / 47 / 16 / 19
400 / 50 / 17 / 20 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mystic Toothless (talk • contribs) at 21:54, 23 September 2015‎ (UTC).

We should already have recipe entries for all these I think. See Recipe: Feast of Garlic Spinach Sautee for example. --Relyk ~ talk < 22:53, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

We're missing most of the box recipes certainly. (347 results.)

Nice research. I began trying to document this for satchels of armor the other day but I got a bit lazy and didn't finish it. My results match yours for the few levels I checked.

Your information in a table format:

Chestpiece rating	Bottles of Elonian Wine	Mystic Coins	Mystic Crystals
0	1	2	4
25	1	5	5
50	1	8	6
75	1	11	7
100	2	14	8
125	2	17	9
150	2	20	10
175	2	23	11
200	3	26	12
225	3	29	13
250	3	32	14
275	3	35	15
300	4	38	16
325	4	41	17
350	4	44	18
375	4	47	19
400	5	50	20

Food rating	Bottles of Elonian Wine	Mystic Coins	Mystic Crystals
75	6	17	9
100	6	17	9
125	6	17	9
150	9	26	12
175	9	26	12
200	9	26	12
225	10	35	15
250	12	35	15
275	12	35	15
300	16	47	19
325	16	47	19
350	16	47	19
375	16	47	19
400	17	50	20

-Chieftain Alex 08:44, 24 September 2015 (UTC)