Talk:Dougal Keane

Necromancers

doesn't this mean they'll be in gw2? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Victor6267 (talk • contribs) at 03:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC).

Not yet. Almost. But no, maybe. Ge4ce 04:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

"The krewe entered the crypts below Divinity's Reach one year prior to the events of Guild Wars 2."

Until we hear about them exiting the crypts, I disagree. Delete tagging the page. A F K When Needed 14:48, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

But he's still part of the world of Guild Wars 2, along with the whole krewe. This is Guild Wars 2 wiki, and the book describes events that are relevant to the game, thus making this article needed. True, we have had no experience with books that are connected to Guild Wars (2) until now, but other wikis make articles about characters and events that are in books only. I say we shouldn't delete it. --Thalador Doomspeaker 15:58, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with deletion, these characters are relevant to the Guild Wars 2 story. --hnzdvn 16:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I also disagree with deletion. The books are a significant part of Guild Wars 2 canon, and just because they might not be in the game doesn't mean these (seemingly) major characters shouldn't be documented. pling 16:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Voicing my own disagreement with the deletion, due to the reasons voiced by Pling. --Sirrush 16:13, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Profession

No say on his profession yet, but I'm fairly certain he's a Ranger considering his experience with traps. Also, the first chapter of the book and the Ranger profession were both released the same week. This may just be coincidence, but any other ideas on his profession? --Spigs 04:19, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

My guess is ranger, but releases are irrelevant, I believe. I would say the norn is also a warrior (what else but fill the stereotype?). Not sure what the asura is. -- Konig/talk 04:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, definitely agreeing that the Norn is a Warrior or possibly the other Soldier if it also uses hammers. As for the Asura, I'm guessing probably an Elementalist or Golemancer/Engeneer type. It's really hard to say, but I'm guessing that he's most likely a caster considering he rides a Golem. Either way, I'm excited for the book to come out. --Spigs 14:47, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, Keane gives me the impression of whatever the supposed assassin replacement is. Considering several people (including me) think that it is similar to the D&D Rogue. Rangers were described as moving closer to nature over the last 250 years, so grave-robbery, reading ancient text, and disarming traps does not seem like the bestial ranger to me. Eive 03:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Well that last one is clearly wrong. "The ranger favors bow weapons and their repertoire of utility skills focuses on pet buffs, traps and spirits of nature." I don't see how there can never be exceptions to the rule either (Cynn, in fact, is an exception to the normal tyrian human elementalist - so there are exceptions to the rule). The only concrete thing that sets Dougal as any profession currently is his expertise with traps. Someone else put it up, I put it into a note so until it is stated what profession is his (if ever), that's the place it should go anyways. I am not opposed to removing it either, considering it is speculation. -- Konig/talk 04:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I wholly admit it was speculation, but the marked absence of any kind of pet tells me that he is definitely not a Ranger. Therefore all that is left that would deal with traps is a rogue type profession. Further, the Indiana Jones comment from that interview gives me hope that whatever the profession is, it will have access to pistols. Arcfire 05:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Konig, please link me to the review that says rangers can disarm traps, if not, then don't call my opinion wrong, as it is rather impossible to do so. :P Anyways, in the OnRPG interview, Eric Flannum really seemed to want to get the point across that rangers went out into the wild, and evolved away from technology, thus why they don't use guns. The descriptions given for rangers in several official sources do not match Keane's character, just as ranger doesn't describe Indiana Jones. Eive 06:20, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I'm sorry but the book does not utilize game mechanics. It is pure lore and as such, it very well may be possible that a ranger in lore could have no pet. After all, there were rangers without pets 250 years ago in lore - a lot of them. Just because something is or isn't in a book doesn't mean it is direct conflict of the game's mechanics. Now, if we were given lore that says "all rangers since [sometime more than five] years ago have," that would be a different case.

Eive, again, I shall quote for you: "The ranger favors bow weapons and their repertoire of utility skills focuses on pet buffs, traps and spirits of nature." Not an interview but the official website. If one focuses on traps, that would include knowing how to disabling them. And a an Indiana Jones character simply means adventurous and a bit of an archeologist/treasure hunter. You don't need technology to be a treasure hunter, and Dougal has lacked any sign of utilizing guns. -- Konig/talk 06:23, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

This is getting awfully close to becoming a heated argument, but I still feel I need to continue this. 1. Once again, what I stated was my opinion. 2. "If one focuses on traps, that would include knowing how to disabling them." Honestly, that's speculation. You took the weakest point of my argument and made a speculative counterargument.... 3. "and Dougal has lacked any sign of utilizing guns" he has also lacked any sign of utilizing longbows, shortbows, axes, warhorns, hammers, staffs, scepters, foci, or maces. I don't see your point. I don't think I said anything like "He's xyz profession because he only uses guns." 4. The interview was audio, and was the Lead Designer speaking about the game. In some cases that is better than the official site, because it is less likely to have been filtered to avoid spoiling anything about their marketing-campaign. 5. " I'm sorry but the book does not utilize game mechanics." *Ding Ding Ding!* We have a winner! That completely ends both of our arguments, this is now over. (At least to me) Eive 07:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I brought up guns because you did and I thought you were attempting to connect the "rangers don't have guns" with "Dougal isn't a ranger." -- Konig/talk 08:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

1. (Edit conflict) Yes, we know it's your opinion. Saying it is such doesn't make it any more right or any less wrong.
2. Speculation? What? If you specialize in working with traps, you know at least how to trigger them. That immediately gives you foresight into not setting them off, which, when it comes to disarming the trap, puts you a step ahead of people who don't specialize in traps. 2+2=4.

The rest really don't bother me, nor should they. --Riddle 08:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Well I really didn't want to comment here again, but every time I see this on RC it bothered me, so this is my final time. 2+2-(rf)/g=65 (Where rf=reality sacrificed for fun, and g=this is a game). I still want that link to the Disarm Trap skill. Eive 10:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

He probabaly is a Ranger, It just makes sense that one who use's traps can also disarm the traps. and i'm pretty sure ranger's don't go around with a trap-in-a-box all ready for them to place. Here's that disarm trap (had to be done) :P --AlbinoAce 12:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

There really is a lot of conflicting evidence. After reading ch 2-3 we see that he uses a sword and knife, no mention of guns like I had hoped, but also no mention of bows, and still no mention of a pet. So my bet would still be against ranger, just because they have been pushing the pet thing so hard on the site. Also he seems rather scholarly what with his knowledge of ancient texts. Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if they have deliberately withheld clues to his profession. Maybe he has no profession? I'm completely out of ideas, there just isn't enough evidence yet. Arcfire 04:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Interesting argument. I don't disagree with either of you. It's very possible he could be a petless Ranger or just a trap-masterin' Assassin-rogue-thing. Perhaps disarming traps is a trait-like function? heh No need to argue. And as for the pushing pets things, I agree. However, I believe two of the videos have characters that don't have pets. (Indiana Jones doesn't have a pet.) I mean, it's not mandatory for a Ranger to have a pet. Sure they're going to push it on the site because pets are cool and make all the little kiddies say, "Ooh! Kitty!" Anyway, it's very possible he could be either. I'm still currently in for the Ranger though. Maybe his 'petty poo' couldn't take the heat so it stayed out of the kitchen. :P --Spigs 06:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Just to add: According to this interview it pretty much IS mandatory for a Ranger to have a pet to "achieve maximum effectiveness." However, this doesn't mean that Dougal isn't a ranger. --Spigs 18:47, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Don't forget that mechanics don't exist on a 1-1 basis between the game and the books. Rangers required to have a pet is a mechanic, them being Luddites and preferring nature is lore.--Corsair@Yarrr 07:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Heir to Ascalon?

In the movement of the world, they've stated that the FoeFire will only dissipate when a true heir to ascalon returns with either Madgear or Sohothin. so... *Spoiler Alert form here on* I belive that dougal could be that aforementioned heir, for a few factors. First off, it can't be player, that stretches it a little bit to say the EVERY player is the heir of ascalon, even if there being multiple adventurers in the game isn't canon. Second is that they REALLY play up his need of an new sword, even when he has the awesome ebon spirit slaying one, it'd make sense to put that into the story where the only sword he can keep is one of the magic ones that could be "meant" for him. Now, it would also make a very good plot resolution to make it so that the man who has survived the ghost city of Ascalon TWICE ends up as it's new king and then leads a new "Ascalonian Insurrection," but it could also be seen as ridiculously redundant that they send him into the ghost city tree times, but who knows. Finally, and perhaps MOST importantly is the fact that the ghost of the attendant, Savione I believe his name was, brings to the surface Dougal's ancestor being a trusted Ascalonian general who just happened to be "on other business" during the foefire, and so not some spirit wandering the city's streets. The only major obstacle to this is that we have NO idea whether or not Dougal has some of the Blood Line of King Doric in him or not, though if Anet seriously planned on doing this with him, it wouldn't be hard to write in some illegitimate son of one of Doric's descendants, if I recal the lore write, Queen Salma of the original Guild Wars was also an illegitimate daughter of the Krytan king. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if we find ourselves with an opportunity to accompany Dougal either back to the city to recover Adelbbern's sword, or on an expedition to the Ring of Fire Island Chain to recover Sohothin. 72.174.198.212 03:04, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why you randomly decided to pick Dougal as your focus for this. Riona is just as likely as Dougal to be a random heir to King Doric. Dougal's Ascalonian ancestor was a lieutenant, not a general. Eive 03:58, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Details, but I apologize for not giving due justice to Dougal's Ancestor's title, please untie the knot in your pants now, I chose Dougal over Riona because he was both given a more sufficient image by Grubb and Forbeck, and he, as opposed to Riona, lived through the book with a new outlook, presumably. Besides, if they were trying to point at anyone other than Queen Jenna, or, possibly, the player, being the heir, it would be Dougal, my reference once again being his conversation with Savione, "It's about time a person like you showed up..." "he [Dougal's Ancestor] was a good man..." etc.I chose Dougal because he was trimmed to be psychologically appealing and logical for an audience to have a "higher" calling. 72.174.198.212 05:23, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

True enough, Dorion Keane was a lieutenant, but Dougal is still around and Riona is, well, not... and I agree with the above poster, the running joke of Dougal's lost swords just seems to funny too pass up. I think the foefire will definitely be part of the game's storyline and we will get to help bring it to an end. Looking back on that last scene, I got the strange feeling I had seen it somewhere before... and it just now came to me. Raiders of the Lost Ark, the snake pit scene. Antagonist gets the shiny treasure, gives victory speech at top of pit, cuts rope leaving Jones to his doom. The amount of character similarities to Dougal is hard to miss, but rather than a turn off, I think it was the one thing that really made the character enjoyable. Arcfire 05:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

The player won't be the heir to Ascalon. If anyone is aside from the queen, it'll be Duke Barradin's descendant(s). As to the conversation with Savione - "a person like you showed up" is in reference to someone who found his map. It is possible Dougal is a descendant of Doric, but it isn't clear and it certainly is possible for that to not be the case. Truth be told, I bet there are dozens of heirs to Doric out there - all but Jennah and her family being descendant of illegitimate children from one king or another. -- Konig/talk 08:25, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you understood IP. There isn't any reason for Dougal to be a random Doric ancestor.... We could also say that Thackeray is somehow related, but that doesn't make him related. Also, one of those Ebonhawke guards in the sewer could have been related, but probably not. A joke about a missing sword doesn't mean he'll go to the Shiverpeaks, retrieve Sohothin, discover he is a lost descendant of Doric, and return to Ascalon to free the ghosts. It just isn't likely. Eive 21:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

You mean the Ring of Fire Islands - that's where Sohothin was last seen, with Rurik's rotting undead corpse. -- Konig/talk 05:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of who is an heir to what, I definitely believe that we will be hunting down Sohothin as part of the Ascalon plot. The first sword created the foefire, therefore it stands to reason that the second one could put it out. Arcfire 04:13, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Now my impression is that if Dougal is the heir to Ascalon , then that would result in another war. Jennah is the queen of Kryta. The Charr are rulers of Ascalon. Dougal would be between a rock and a hard place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 93.87.225.140 (talk) at 14:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC).

Dougal Keane Name Meaning

I just found it interesting that the name Dougal means Dark Stranger. And then Keane means Fighter. Fits his person pretty well if you ask me. --Spigs 01:38, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Adding to trivia because it is interesting. And probably done on purpose. -- Konig/talk 04:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok. That makes sense now. I just saw it on Trivia and thought, "WHOA! I realized that too!" and then saw this. haha I'm going to edit it a bit if you don't mind. --Spigs 06:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Thief

I guess he's one (srry for spec.) --The Holy Dragons 15:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't surprise me, given the translation of his name, and the stuff he does in the book. Waar Kijk Je Naar 16:11, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd say Ember's the thief (sword, pistol, dark armor, part of the Ash Legion known for spies and assassins), he's just a guy with a longbow and sword (and dagger and torch). But mechanics != game. GoA may have been written before the thief profession was even made/had its weapons decided. -- Konig/talk 16:20, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought ember had rifle not a pistol... --The Holy Dragons 16:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hope, pistol and a sword. Dougal uses a sword, dagger, and in the past a bow. But as proven by Logan in EoD, mechanics have no say on books. -- Konig/talk 19:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

If he is the thief, then I called it July 18th. Eive 00:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

How did Logan prove that? Lokheit 00:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

He was guardian wearing medium armor. - Infinite - talk 00:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

In-game appearance

One of the Lion's Arch articles mentions Dougal Keane possibly appearing in a city somewhere.

http://www.arena.net/blog/lions-arch-building-the-heart-of-the-city

"Traveling through the Agora and the Grand Piazza, I imagine all the conversations that I'd want to have with NPCs, and what established characters we might expect to find---Dougal Keane, for example."

99.103.248.200 19:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I was hoping you had footage of him somewhere. The point of this section is a bit lost now. - Infinite - talk 20:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually it isn't as someone pointed such out that we got an implication of seeing Dougal in game but it wasn't on the main article (it now is, I added it when I first saw the ip's comment). Well I guess NOW it is, but it wasn't when made. -- Konig/talk 22:51, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I stand corrected. Still, they could've just made a note like you did in the first place. :P - Infinite - talk 10:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

By now I tend to have realized that people find it easier to make a comment on the talk page. Especially in the case of IP's. -- Konig/talk 20:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

>.>

Who was his ancestor some dude? i forgets...and cant find my book.--Icyyy Blue 03:54, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Dorion Keane. Konig/talk 07:09, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

what once was lost is now found.

so i found him in la today and added a info box to match i got a few screens of his dialog but i dont know what the formating is for npcs and i didnt get all of his dialog. ill post it soon.- Zesbeer 00:52, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Among my 3k+ screenies, I got his full dialogue (I think). Most of his dialogue revolves around him giving a brief summary of Ghosts of Ascalon's plot, as well as some "tips" for adventurers. He's now a trainer for new Vigil recruits, who occasionally goes out on adventures. Konig/talk 02:44, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

yea i saw that. i am just wondering if we are going to make a dougal keane npc page or if we are just going to add the dialog. also the i found that service when i looked up the npc info box here: NPC service- Zesbeer 02:52, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Just... add the new lore and dialogue. It's the same character, why would we make a new page? And if anything can be called an "Information NPC" (too general, imo), I don't think Dougal Keane counts. Konig/talk 03:02, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

ok, i dont think i got all of his dialog so i will wait for you to go thew your screens he has a ton of options, also i was wondering if we were going to do the hole new npc page like we did on gw1w (like how gwen had preseraring gwen ect) but i was always on the side of its the same npc so it should be the same page. also i just wanted to follow formatting as closely as i could.- Zesbeer 03:06, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

There is only one Gwen page on GWW now, over there they only split if the NPC is vastly different (like Langmar or Nick in pre vs. post). No such NPC exist in GW2 (yet). Konig/talk 03:57, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Dialog screen shots

Here are the screen shots i got: [1]- Zesbeer 03:16, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Where is he?

Where did you find him? I completed 100% of human areas and Lion's Arc and didn't see him (I wasn't really checking NPC names but I though I would stop after reading that name :O). EDIT: Nevermind, I checked the map part of your images and it match with Lion's Arc near the Portals :P. Lokheit 18:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Since the last update (June 23rd 2015) Dougal Keane is missing from Lions Arch. Has anyone found him anywhere else? Does this mean he is on a mission for the Vigil somewhere? (Iceblue (talk) 12:05, 17 August 2015 (UTC))

Playable

Do you guys remember the DLC for GW1? Where you could play as Gwen for example? It would be nice if they did the same with Dougal and his party. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 93.87.225.140 (talk) at 14:46, 6 August 2013 (UTC).