Template talk:STDT

Chrome

I would like to let you know, this template does not show a grid-like table on Google Chrome, apparently rules="all" doesn't work in this browser; when the page is rendered it shows everything correctly, after loading the entire page Chrome eats up all the borders around every table's cell. - 177.0.27.220 13:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Sure works for me. Mediggo 13:53, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, works for me too. —Dr Ishmael 14:14, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Weird, tried refreshing the page a few times? - 177.0.27.220 19:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's a screenshot of what I see on Location - http://i.imgur.com/YlFix.jpg - no issues for me. —Dr Ishmael 20:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid this might something in my computer, did you try refreshing the same page some times to check if it remains as a grid-like table? The first time I access a page it shows all the lines (rules="all" works), after refreshing 2-3 times it starts eating up the lines. - 177.0.27.220 21:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, no matter how many times I refresh, the borders are still there. —Dr Ishmael 21:24, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I also tried this (using Chrome 18.0.1025.168) and did not encounter any issues. ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 21:58, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Time for an overhaul

It's slowly been creeping onto the wiki as the new fab, so I'm proposing we alter this template to create the new-style tables. An example can be found here. (I'm thinking the {{any-color}} colours will do fine for blank use). - Infinite - talk 15:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Those tables look really weird without borders. Also, while the coloured cells might be appropriate for the sigil example you linked, since there are different 'categories'/levels to divide the tables into, and so many rows that highlighting each row becomes useful, it's not really good for something like list of non-English wikis. The design also isn't particularly consistent to or complementary with infobox and nav designs; it breaks the uniformity in the design scheme across articles. pling 17:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Re: non-English wiki table, that does look weird with the headers "floating" above the table, with no background color or border to attach them to the table. —Dr Ishmael 17:42, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Another thing: this is just an abomination :P. This isn't much better. Tables are complicated enough as it is for wikinewbs (and even fairly experienced users) to edit. A template wouldn't make it much easier since each row requires at least a style for the background. pling 17:52, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) The reason why the tables don't look consistent (yet), is because there is a consensus on new nav and infobox styles (not as seen on Alfa's) that compliments them (but for some reason wasn't ever actually implemented). Though when talking about the "old" infobox and nav styles, thus sort of ignoring that previous somehow-not-implemented consensus I do see the point. Regardless of what we change standard tables to, it needs to move away from the current aesthetic, which doesn't blend with anything anymore. - Infinite - talk 17:56, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Alfa-R for the overhaul! It is now consistent with the rest of the design changes. :) - Infinite - talk 15:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Very nice. :D pling 16:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Cell Borders

I have been noticing an issue that makes some tables very confusing to read. I think they are referencing this table template, which is why I'm bringing it up here.

Without cell borders, it's very difficult to figure out which information goes with which row....especially on the skill tables. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about.

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer_skills
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist_skills
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_skills

Jfarris964 19:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

[[:File:User_Alfa-R_tables.png|Here]] you can see how table is supposed to look like. There should be now problem distinguishing rows, as they have different colors. If you are getting a different picture, could you please tell me which browser are you using, and make a screen of how it looks like, so it can get fix. Alfa-R 20:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm mildly confused by the claim "it's very difficult to figure out which information goes with which row", because every bit of information on the linked examples is instantly clear to me. If you are looking at these lists in Firefox, however, I can understand the confusion because we're currently working on fixing the non-aligned widths and the respective meta-columns. - Infinite - talk 20:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I was messing around with the tables CSS classes to make Dr Ishmael's proposed skill lists to show correctly and I did something that caused all the borders, gradients, and row borders to disappear completely. Maybe that's how it looks like on Jfarris's browser? I'd reproduce it but I don't even know how it happened in the first place lol... It's likely something related to a browser that can't handle the table classes in common.css. Maybe try the newest version of chrome? --Lania 21:08, 06 June 2012 (UTC)

@Lania: You are exactly right. All of those things have completely disappeared. @Alfa: I WISH my screen looked like that, lol. That would be perfect. Currently I'm using IE8. Upgrading my browser or using a different browser isn't an option as this is a work computer and we are not allowed to install software without approval. I've taken a screenshot, but it's huge and I don't know where it would be best to upload it. Putting it up on the wiki seems kind of pointless as this will hopefully only be temporary. Jfarris964 22:37, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and uploaded the file. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:User_Jfarris964_Skill_List_Screenshot.png Jfarris964 22:41, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

You may still be using the old versions of the site's CSS files. Be sure to force-refresh your browser's cache of the page - for IE, that's Ctrl+F5. —Dr Ishmael 22:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I just checked in my IE 8, and I see the same thing. Looks like IE doesn't recognize the :nth-child(odd) selector. —Dr Ishmael 23:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Would something like this [1] a javascript code to emulate css3 classes work to make things like the nth-child function properly in IE8 or lower? --Lania 23:30, 06 June 2012 (UTC)

What you linked would require a backend install by the Anet sysadmins. There are simpler ways to emulate this specific function (every-other-row coloration) using JS, however. —Dr Ishmael 23:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah okee, yah prolly something that can just plug into mediawiki:common.js would be easy? I just checked with IE9 and it looks okay, so they must have added the ability to recognize several CSS3 classes after IE8. --Lania 00:03, 07 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your feedback. I've found a way to install IE8, and right now I'm working on adding legacy browser support (I was pretty sure nth-child is from CSS 2, as first-child definitely is, you can see how differently 1st row looks even on older IE versions). As IE doesn't support row color switching, I'll just add horizontal borders for IE8-. It also doesn't support current semi-transparent borders, so I'll rework them, though it may cause some kind of loss of prettiness on modern browsers. Alfa-R 06:52, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

This is going to be the first time I'm going to object catering to IE8 and below; the update to that browser is automated via Microsoft Updates. A vast majority of IE users should have already upgraded to IE9 automatically for that reason. The design works on every current major browser, for their acceptable versions. I rather we use the local .js to support IE8 and below, instead of overhauling the design just to cater the few users IE8 and below has in this corner of the gaming world. The design is fine as it is now; it's certain browsers that should change. - Infinite - talk 11:58, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

A LOT of corporations (and even many smaller companies) use custom Windows security policy settings, often replacing the default Windows Update with an updater administered by their IT department, so that they can push out specific updates at specific times. That's how it is where I work, and we are still on IE 8 IE 7. I'm lucky in that we don't have any restrictions on installing additional software, so I can use Chrome at work, but for people like Jfarris here, they don't have any choice.

While I agree that we shouldn't go out of our way to "dumb down" the styles for these older browsers, I wanted you to understand that some people don't have a choice. —Dr Ishmael 12:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh I get that. But that's simply reducing the amount of users of this unique browser experience. Furthermore it regards working space, which is not a place where you should be checking the wiki.

Whilst I understand there will be times where users can't access the most current versions of the major browsers, it is not going to apply to a home environment in which Guild Wars 2 can be played or researched. It applies to work/school-related access, during which you shouldn't be looking up stuff about a game. Saying that we *should* go out of our way to meet those backwards expectations is not a very logical practise, to be very honest. - Infinite - talk 13:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I've almost finished a solution that will work with both modern browsers, and IE7-8. IE version will have borders instead of colored background, though. Alfa-R 16:18, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

People access the wiki from work, including admins. Some people only access/edit from work. Sure, it might mean a little extra effort to make sure they can view it properly, but that's better than ignoring reality and saying "hey, who cares about those guys". pling 16:40, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

@Alfa Thank you for the work you're doing. I understand that the wiki has gone through a recent overhaul and believe me....it looks beautiful now. I really appreciate everyones work to make the wiki experience a bit more pleasureable for those of us that are forced to use older browsers. I don't think that the site needs to be dumbed down for older browsers....but the content should be legible. I love all the new tables and gradients and everything. The wiki looks amazing. @Pling Thanks for sticking up for us little guys :-) Jfarris964 20:13, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

To add to that, the estimated cost of cyberslacking (not including other forms of non-working) is about 1 billion dollars annually. So, a lot of people do it and its not something that's going to go away. If people are willing to "slack" to work on the wiki instead of playing games, watching movies & tv shows, gossiping, do online gambling, take excessive lunch/coffee breaks, sleep, texting, facebooking etc... then more power to them... improves the wiki overall when more people participate. Also for the fix, I'm sure Alfa will come up with something pretty that doesn't look like the wiki is punishing users of IE8,7 etc. --Lania 20:24, 07 June 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) IE7 and 8 should display tables much-much better now. Alfa-R 20:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Alfa!! That looks great. Jfarris964 20:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks awesome

These STDTs look brilliant. Good work all. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:10, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Collapsing Tables

As you guys probably know, adding "collapsible" after "{{STDT|" in fact allows it to collapse, and because of that, I have two questions: 1 - is there any way to force a collapsible table to start collapsed, and 2 - is it worth it to add it to the wiki documentation? MynockSpit (talk) 22:43, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

You can use "expandable" instead. And I'm not sure about adding auto-hidden tables to main space pages, but I think it's avoided because some people might not notice that you can click show to have more information appear. •••Mora 22:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:CollapsibleTables.js has the stuff that you want. Perhaps we could link there from the bottom of Help:Formatting Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Table formatting. -Chieftain Alex 21:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

We actually have two competing modules - Poke's custom-written module (linked by Alex) that only works on tables, and MW's built-in (since 1.18) module that also works on block-level elements. I don't really know why we haven't switched everything over to the built-in yet, other than inertia. —Dr Ishmael 20:23, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I seem to recall that the MW version cannot do collapsible sections such as those seen in Iron Greatsword (loot). -Chieftain Alex 21:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

It's simple enough - we just have to write CSS classes for a multi-part table structure (mainly display:block and no top/bottom margins) and make the "subheader" classes accessible by name (.header is accessible but not .subheader, it's only applied by DOM hierarchy rules).

Level	Prefix	Stats	Value	Link

Fine
test

Masterwork
test

—Dr Ishmael 22:35, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

getting any css past .table.equip > :first-child > tr:first-child > * (which also uses !important as well as select all) would be awkward. Otherwise yes (table+table.mw-collapsible { display:block; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0 } for the middle tables, and we could assign a special class for the top one.) -Chieftain Alex 23:08, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Given equivalent hierarchy lineage in the rules, the one with a defined class name takes precedence over the one without: example. We'd just have to provide a .table.equip > :first-child > tr:first-child > .subheading as the counterpart to the * version. —Dr Ishmael 23:38, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Captions

Header A	Header B
Content A	Content B

caption

Header A	Header B
Content A	Content B

caption

Header A	Header B
Content A	Content B

The table header row looks notably different depending on where I place the caption. I guess that's due to some poor, little, lost first-child somewhere in MediaWiki:Common.css. :(

This is just a minor issue, but I thought I should mention it. —Blackice (talk) 21:53, 20 December 2017 (UTC)