Talk:Sylvari/Archive 2

Reponse to the elder dragons

Why was link to article that said the sylvari are a response to the elder dragons removed, that's important information. They're being created to hunt the dragons isn't just their opinion they ARE a response to the elder dragons. Ramei Arashi 06:51, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

They are not a response to the dragons, that is their opinion, the tree the Sylvari were born from was planted by a Shining Blade soldier who found the seed and wanted to show his family, who had been killed before he got home. If anything the Sylvari are a response to the Shining Blade/White Mantle conflict, but that was resolved. Edit: I do think that the info that they think they are a response to the elder dragons should be on the page though. - Giant Nuker 12:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

"The sylvari believe it is their destiny to hunt the dragons, throughout their dream there is a shadow cast over them, when they awaken to the world they see the same shadow is cast over the world by the elder dragons." It is already there. - Infinite - talk 12:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Infinite, I think Ramei's referring to this: The birth of sylvari was a response to the threat of the dragons<ref>[http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?page=1&feature=3504&bhcp=1&game=473 Guild Wars 2: Preview Interview], mmorpg.com</ref>, and as such, sylvari believe it is their destiny to hunt the dragons. which was removed during this edit. Said article contradicts all other articles by not stating that it's of the sylvari's opinion. -- Konig/talk 14:19, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, that edit. I thought I was overlooking something. It should be fine without altering the current article, though. Now that I read the quote I presented in that edit's light, it all seems covered. - Infinite - talk 14:33, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

yeah - that edit. :P I felt the difference between whether they're an actual response to the elder dragons and the belief they're a response to the elder dragons wasn't that huge. Plus it feels a little like an unreliable source as it seems like a paraphrase of a verbal interview or they'd have never spelled Zhaitan as Xytan and the parts they weren't paraphrasing they seemed to put in quotes. The reference in this case wasn't a direct quote. I don't feel that strongly about it though it is easy enough to put back in if anyone feels strongly. -- aspectacle  17:44, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

According Anet the ARE a response to the elder dragons its not just the sylvari's belief about themself. There is a huge difference. If it was just the sylvari's opinion they could be wrong. Ramei Arashi 18:32, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Souce, Ramei? A single interview isn't enough with every other situation stating that it's merely a belief. If you can get more than one place, or a video interview (video interviews are FAR more trustworthy than text interviews), then I'll believe you. But atm, we have more stating that the sylvari think they're a response, and fewer stating that they really are. -- Konig/talk 19:20, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

We have an official source saying the are. The rest are not official sources they're people like you who think their opinion trumps what Anet has actually said. Ramei Arashi 04:49, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Watch it.. Please find more than one interview before it can be labeled as a fact. Hell, I want to say that the Sylvari are a reincarnation of the Human Druids who stripped their skins some couple hundred years ago and became part of nature only to be reborn of nature but I can't. There must be a few legitimate sources (not just one source). Think of it as writing an essay, you need a works cited. - Lucian Shadowborn 5:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Let's see...

1. The information is already in the article.

2. The article that has been presented by Konig is neither ANet nor an official source, and makes quite a few simple errors.

3. Every other source has stated that it is a belief of the sylvari.

4. If there is an "official source" could you link us to it? Eive 05:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Can you? I honestly don't care about the Sylvari, I'm a Kodan kind of a guy. - Lucian Shadowborn 5:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

"We have an official source saying the are."Really? Because your source is no more official than any of mine. Unless you have a hidden one you're not sharing. -- Konig/talk 08:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Interesting

"Over the next two hundreds years, cocoons formed for the first time on the pale tree. In 1302 AE, these opened to the first of the sylvari. The tablet at the base of the tree and the Dream of Dreams guide the sylvari, who are imprinted by the morality and ethics of Ventari and the bravery of Ronan." So does that mean that they're the combination of humans and centaur? Belief wise. - Lucian Shadowborn 3:39, 23 January 2011 (UTC) EDIT: Gotta love that they're brought up by peace in a time of war. Ironic, no? - Lucian Shadowborn 3:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

It's mainly just the Ventari's tablet that imprinted them. Eive 03:53, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Ahhh! - Lucian Shadowborn 4:11, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

σ_σ

Sylvari redesign finished in October, supposedly. Most recent update(guardian) started around November/December, it's now January, and we didn't get to see any sort of new Sylvari in the video. Gerroh is displeased.--Gerroh 00:08, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I share your sentiments good sir. Eive 00:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

New Information on the Sylvari

Well, it seems we have new information that may need to go in this article, or perhaps on the article about the Pale Tree (or both). Whichever you all think works best. Here's the quote:

"It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that a newly born race, with no actual experience in the outside world, would know to embrace the tablet's teachings without some sort of intervention by the maker of the tablet. How would they know how to read it? (...how did the first generation know HOW to read?)

Many of the first memories within the Dream of Dreams, the first thoughts and conclusions, belong to the Pale Tree herself, and are expanded upon by her children as they are born and go out into the world. The Pale Tree is not a humanoid, but nevertheless, she has thoughts, feelings, and wisdom that she shares with unawakened sylvari as they Dream. She was there when Ventari and Ronan shared their hopes for the future, and watched as they fell to despair that their vision of a peaceful world would not be established within their lifetimes. She was there when Ventari lived out the last of his years alone, though she could not speak to comfort him. She was there when he carved his last words into the Tablet; after he died, she held the carved stone among her roots, Dreaming of its lessons and sharing them with her children who would one day awaken, and be sylvari.

The memories are shared collectively within the dream? How, then, is each sylvari a unique individual?

Yes, but not in a unified manner. The Dream is a deep well, into which memory and thought are poured as each sylvari learns and experiences the world. A newborn sylvari takes memories from that well in part, not in whole; like a bowl filled with water from that lake, they see only a small fraction of their race’s collective experience. The Pale Tree ensures that each sylvari who awakens has been given a basic understanding of the Tablet, the world, and the love she has for each of them.

The Tree’s memories teach lessons, such as reading, the basic tasks of living, how to wield a weapon. Seeing and experiencing more personal memories from other sylvari does not make each sylvari less individual; they are free-willed, and can make up their own mind as to what they have seen. Each sylvari’s Dream is different; they do not see every memory that the Tree holds. Rather, they experience only a small portion of the whole. Each sylvari’s Dream contains both the Tree’s lessons, and a portion of memories and feelings drawn from the mélange of images and emotions of the combined sylvari experience.

Those Firstborn that remain with the Tree often spend a great deal of their time helping newly awakened sylvari understand what they have Dreamed. This includes lessons to explain the Tablet’s writings as the sylvari interpret them; a better sense of sylvari history; and education about the world around them.

I'd love to know about the "government system" of the Sylvari.

In the beginning, the sylvari didn’t need a government. They had the Tree, and only the Firstborn, and it was a small enough collective that no ‘rulership’ was needed. As the sylvari began to expand as a race, the Tree has continued to be a quiet font of wisdom. Many of the Firstborn took over the roles of leadership, teachers, and organizers for their people. The Firstborn are the wisest and most knowledgable, and the other sylvari respect them greatly. Even among the Nightmare court’s twisted hierarchy, the Firstborn Faolain is given a great deal of respect and authority; enough to have claimed the title of Grand Duchess.

There will be a lot more on the government, history, and biology of the sylvari available in the future. Be patient, saplings. There is still so very much to learn…"

Very nice lore tidbits! :D --Amannelle 01:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

The information should go on this one, the Pale Tree, and the Firstborn articles. -- Konig/talk 01:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Could someone add this information to the Dream of Dreams article too? :) I would, but I'm not entirely sure how people want it set up (paragraph-wise). :D --Amannelle 20:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I enjoyed this stuff too, it is nice that it just came out of the blue. If you want to do the edits Amannelle just do them - don't be afraid! I don't think anyone much minds what paragraph structure is there as long as it groups like information with like in a sane way. Either way I'll start to use the media watch project to track these larger incorporation tasks - I'm not really keeping up. -- aspectacle  21:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Picture, up to date?

Actually, I was thinking... now that Arenanet has revamped the sylvari. are the screens of them still up-to-date? Shouldn't we mention that those are screens before the revamp.==>

Just asking...

Sylvari before them being re-made

--SierraThat's me 14:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Well what else is there to use? Best thing to do is adding the info that it's the first design of the sylvari how they looked at the demo version. Damysticreaper 14:58, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

That's what I was trying to say, example==>--SierraThat's me 15:01, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if the "revamp" was actually more in line with the sylvar's armor, rather than the sylvari themselves (except maybe in a few cases to make them look more plantlike). The armor to the right do not look like the armor in concept art, which is far more plant-like, and in interviews and even in the books, their clothing is said to be grown/made of plants. -- Konig/talk 16:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

The armor in that thumb on the right is cloth or made of leaves. Syvlari armor is now supposed to be "part of them", "growing out of them". At least, that's what I got from all the news. - Infinite - talk 16:23, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't recall ever seeing a "made out of them" or "part of them" - mind linking? And to add on to what I said, outside of the middle sylvari to the right, the hair hardly looks leafy/plant-like, like it's supposed to. I don't think the concept art is what's changed, but the actual in-game models, personally, and done to look more like the common concept art we've seen. The second sylvari to the right (Caithe), and the male sylvari in the back, have armor which I would expect to be used by the sylvari, but the others are not. And the middle sylvari is the only one with hair which looks like a sylvari's hair. Effectively, I'm thinking that the redesign puts the sylvari more like these three [[:File:GDC 2010 Priest of Melandru.png

|concept]] arts; and hair like this one.

That's my hope, at least. -- Konig/talk 16:33, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

same here. --The Holy Dragons 16:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Altough it would not supprise e if their physical apearance would be changed as well, altough still young of age the Silvari have a bit of a childish apearance. I don't mind if they looked a bit more mature. Damysticreaper 18:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

So when do you suppose we'll get more info on the Sylvari? I'm pleased that they're re-designing them, the original design wasn't good. Perhaps they'll be represented in the next profession revelation? --Drasi, March 2011 (UTC)

Dunno if anyone else saw this, but if you look at the "Home Sweet Hoelbrak" and "Malchior's Theif" videos on Youtube, there are brief glimpses of sylvari characters. I personally can't say they look hugely different to me, but... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdWdhBw7QVU&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx47DqQOjvw&feature=related) Zolann The Irreverent 20:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Yea I saw that too :P(think they're still the old ones) --The Holy Dragons 20:59, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Arenanet didn't use the updated models in the demo. - Giant Nuker 22:32, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, shoot. I wonder when they'll update the website pics? Zolann The Irreverent 20:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Most likely sylvari week, which will likely be the last of the major races to get their own information week. -- Konig/talk 23:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of which, has anyone heard anything about that? Are they planning anything for the next few weeks? Zolann The Irreverent 00:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I wish I knew what ArenaNet were up to with their information releases! -- aspectacle  01:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Cotton is a plant, you guys. I'm interested to see what the new Sylvari look like, I very much doubt it's just a remake of their clothes. Everything about Sylvari in that picture looks organic, and all of it could come from plant matter(Caithe's hair could be cotton, too!). Still hoping for bigger melons.--Gerroh 00:32, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

<insert witty command about wanting "watermelons" on plants> - Infinite - talk 02:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Time of Birth

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sylvari http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Firstborn http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ventari

These pages have discrepancies. The first page has the Sylvari First Born first emerging 25 years ago while the two latter pages both list the First Born as emerging 23 years ago.

I changed on the sylvari page to 23, because by the timeline it is the correct one. 82.131.236.217 14:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Arenanet keeps saying 25 years in interviews such as http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/2011/03/guild-wars-2-pax-east-press-demo/ Ramei Arashi 03:58, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

It's 23. 25 is used as rounding - just as the GoA FAQ on the main site says that the Foefire happened "250 years ago" when it was actually closer to 235 years - within interviews and the like, but all in-universe sources and most official-site sources state 23. 04:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I think some people must be referring to the time given in the first book, which take place (iirc) two years before the start of the GW2 storyline. Never mind. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:30, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

25 years is now confirmed, noticing that there's already been a couple of reverts over the age - just check the main GW2 Sylvari page before reverting my revert. Snowmane 18:48, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Well - can't revert again. I scan read more or less every article on Sylvari on here - read the up to date GW2 site posts and cannot find a single official source that confirms the 1302 date given in the timeline. Seeing as no source is given in the timeline; the movement of the world article does not state a time and the closest thing to an interview I could find said "score" which is 20, I've come to the conclusion that either this has changed recently, and not been updated in several places on this wiki or the person who wrote the Lore for the Sylvari, and the Sylvari page on the main GW2 website is wrong. Take your pick. 3 reverts (okay the recent one is only effectively a revert) in one day since the release of new info... I think the community needs to make it's decision. Snowmane 19:22, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Your desired source is both Ghosts of Ascalon and Edge of Destiny. They have a timeline in them, at the very beginning, which has been used to fill in the Timeline article. It states 1302 AE as when the first sylvari awoke. Anet likes to round a lot so whenever they say "250 years" or "25 years" it's not going to always be exactly 250 or whatever years. For instance, they say that the Foefire happened "250 years ago" (from GW2's standpoint) when they wrote about Ghosts of Ascalon and what it's about, but it's really ~235 years prior to GW2. Konig/talk 19:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I don't buy the rounding. We're not just talking offhand comments about Sylvari ages in interviews - we're talking main-page for Sylvari on the GW2 website. We know from a few things in GW1 that ANet -love- to change their lore after they've written it, and this seems to be one of the typical examples; especially as the books are at least what, a year old now, and from what I understand... written by a different person who has ended up doing the lore for the Sylvari.

Final... and about the fifth rewrite of my point... If the books timeline hasn't been paraphrased from the timeline we have on here, actually it doesn't say Sylvari were born/awoke in 1302. It says "Appear". We now know there were 12 first born, and assumedly they didn't instantly run out to the rest of the world as they are "highly disoriented" when they awaken. Appear could well actually be that other races encounter them; which the extra two years would also likely be necessary for the Sylvari to get used to the idea of being.... Sylvari. The odds of them awakening (I sooo want to type hatching) and instantly establishing contact with other races is unlikely; and their activities are unlikely to be documented BEFORE they appear to other races. Therefore theoretically we could both be right. Depends on the wording. And I got -way- distracted so have completely lost my train of thought... Snowmane 02:44, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Buy it or not, they do round a lot; here is the Foefire rounding incident, and look it's on the main page! Timeline shows the actual date of the event (1090 AE, which is 235 years before 1325 AE, the year of GW2). They have said "twenty-five years" for a long time, but both timelines state 1302 AE. On the argument that the books were written by a different person - Ghosts of Ascalon was heavily edited by Jeff Grubb, one of the two World and Continuity developers. Continuity as in "makes sure things are consistent." The map and timeline are most likely written by Anet, and not the hired writers. While Anet does have a tendency to change things while making a new game, but with their love-of-rounding, this seems more like a case of the latter. Until we get a actual date and not a simple "x many years ago" I say we go with the actual date - you yourself said that they once said a "score" which is 20 years. Guess what's inbetween 20 and 25?

For your "appear/born" argument - it was stated that Caithe and Faolain went out into the world. Maybe not immediately, but the disorientation is only a few weeks according to one of the blog posts, and it seems like they were together a while before Faolain fell to the Nightmare, which was about ~7 years post Firstborn's birth (if we were to assume she went to the Nightmare at the time the Nightmare Court was formed, and that the Nightmare Court was made within a couple years of the Secondborn's generation). Essentially, by the sound of it, those two left relatively soon. And with the proximity to the asura, who were the first race they met, I wouldn't doubt that it'd be less than a year since they were known.

Furthermore, "appear" could be used as a term to describe sylvarian birth as they are not born in the traditional sense but "appear" from the golden fruit. Scratch that, the last of the sentence pretty much states that's the year of birth "The sylvari first appear along the Tarnished Coast, sprouting from the Pale Tree." You can't sprout from the Pale Tree (sylvarian birth) 3 years after one's "birth"... Konig/talk 03:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Like I said, it'll be debatable till we get an actual date. I still don't buy the rounding; but I agree that it's logical to keep the actual date rather than a number of years; We'll get to see who is right when the game is released... Or I guess the upcoming demo with the Sylvari in it. (though even then - ANet could well change their minds again before release.) Snowmane 14:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

not sure if this was already said but...

found some part of the sylvari start cinematic [1] at 2:24 - theres a bit of the dialogue in the subs - sylvari bit starts at 2:01 and ends at 2:24 Getefix 23:05, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

We cant possibly know if that is the starting cinematic, or an ig cinematic, it COULD just be some cinematic they made for this. Not likely, but we dont know. --AdventurerPotatoe - 23:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Not confirmed to be intro but definably sylvari based. There was a human-styled concept art cinematic in another one of those GDC videos which ended up being the human intro - other videos also show a norn (not intro) and a charr (suspected to be intro). -- Konig/talk 23:40, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Interesting

I was looking through the artists for possible new concept arts, and I found this. It's just one week old post. 91.82.212.231 23:27, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Well according to the person who posted he got it from the art book which came out last year before the remodeling started. So assuming its real (I don't have the book myself and have never seen that piece concept art) its not new.--Elemental Phantom 23:53, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Honestly? I really hope that ain't it. Zolann The Irreverent 02:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The closest concept art I could find is this one. I've never heard of Nate Storm and looking through several pages of said blog (went back to 08 dated posts), I found nothing else related to GW or GW2 (most stuff is either nude portraits (with the occasional non-nude) and cars)... are we sure he's from Anet? I am thinking this could be a fan-made thing. -- Konig/talk 03:10, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

" It's a sylvari from the guild wars 2 art book- concept by Jamie Jang." doesn't that sentence kind of state this isn't his work? (or he's just using Jamie's concept-art) --The Holy Dragons 08:50, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Render artists use concept art as a basis. I'm sure that's why the IP thought this was official GW2 art, and why I felt the need to point out what I did. -- Konig/talk 08:58, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Sylvari week

It appears that Sylvari week will be before Gamescom and also the Sylvari will be playable in the PAX demo. Looking forward to the redesign. Venom20 13:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Also to note, I believe Gamescom will be August 17-21 (for reference).. Venom20 13:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Excited to see what the redesign looks like. --Xu Davella 16:40, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. I'm excited to see what they did to make it both elegant and creature-ish ~Reez 17:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-! Finally we get to see the new Sylvari. -Rubs hands together- C'monnnnn bigger melons.--Gerroh 14:33, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I would also prefer to see them less child-like and am curious how they look after being redesigned. The old apearance was too much fantasy like if you ask me, making them look more like the concept arts would be alot better. But for me they don't need to have watermelons (altough they do taste good, would be nice if you could actually eat one (pun NOT intended) in-game or any other food). Da Mystic Reaper 14:40, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

-Snicker- "Eating". Sylvari innuendo is endless. I was thinking more along the lines of a honeydew melon. I just hope the new Sylvari aren't too flowery. If they are, we need an option for... "deflowering" them.--Gerroh 14:54, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

As delicious as it would be eating one, I just hope the design is VERY different from the old ones. The old models look like a human and Asura had a baby and threw it in Chlorophyll. Compared to the concept art, I was expecting a beautiful creature-esque race, but the old ones looked like an alien-esque race. So vibrant green. 67.249.45.168 22:33, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh my goodness I never dreamed that the Sylvari redesign would be so fantastic! The first version was just awful, but now they're... real Sylvari. Beautiful. Beforehand I wasn't really interested in them, but now I will definatley explore creating a Sylvari character! Congrats Arenanet, the race is a huge success! -Drasi 8 August 2011 (UTC)

OHMYGERRRRRRTHEYLOOKAWESOOOOOOOOOOOME LEAFMOHAWKDOWANT--Gerroh 20:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, I was already going to make my main a sylvari, but this is fantastic. When I look at these pictures and say the word "sylvari", it fits. It's perfect. I've always loved the sylvari as noble and young, and I was afraid the redesign would make them too mature or too ent-like, but I love this! 69.121.219.6 21:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Amused at how well recieved the new art is... when actually remarkably little has changed for the art that we actually can see. Sure Kristen Perry talks about massive changes - but only VERY few changes in the images we can actually see are significant in the slightest... unless you care about having a few lumps on your arms. So far as I can tell these are less plant-like than Dryads. So to say she was aiming for a further towards the plant side of the... spectrum? it rather bizarre to me.. Meh not that I care much.. just seems everyone is basically saying it's amazing changes... for them getting leaves instead of hair and a few lumps here and there on the limbs (plus obviously more pronounce collar bones... not that plants HAVE bones to have them more pronounced). Oh and I forgot, one of the images has random branches coming out of it. And one of them looks like the "Tree" from the future in Doctor Who (I can post a link if people want to see the resemblance)

That said, as long as I can have a Sylvari the colour of Caithe rather than the colour of... whatever the hell those other pigments were taken from - I'll be sticking to Sylvari as my main. Still think I prefered the original concept art for the most part. Oh and someone who isn't severely sleep deprived should probably update the main page's images... I'm both tired and can't really remember how to do it right now. Snowmane 01:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Blasphemer!

SO PRETTY

You don't see a significant difference? I think you took what was said in the article a little too literally, as though those were the only things that were done. The old Sylvari were essentially green humans with leaves for hair. The new Sylvari, at least to me, look like a fruit or pod that has taken a humanoid shape, they actually look like something that broke off of a plant, like a humanoid fruit. Idk, just look at the details closer or something and you'll see what I mean. This is a big difference, and Gerroh is pleased about it.--Gerroh 04:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

"The old Sylvari were essentially green humans with leaves for hair" Not really. Only a couple had leaves for hair, most had fiber, which was pretty damn hard to tell from actual hair. The new sylvari definably look more plantlike, even if the changes were just altering the direction of where the plant-design came from and adding ridges. Sometimes little effort is needed for a huge change. Konig/talk 05:24, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The older design looked like funny-coloured humans imo. The redesign wasn't significant, but it definitely makes a difference. --Xu Davella 10:44, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Depends what is meant by design. The actual designing probably took a considerable amount of work, at least by judging from Ms. Perry's blog post. Such design also demands new efforts from model and animations team, armor and sound design... Mediggo 11:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The old design looked more like Green Giant canned goods (i.e. green colored humans wearing leaves or in the case of Caithe, pale skinned and white-haired). The new design has much more detail in terms of texture and it is more unique with respect to other games' elf aesthetic. The skin appears more leaf / bark-like , the appendages are less human-like , and the coverings aren't designed as if they were clothes (they originate from "growth sockets"). Compare http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ArmorClothingConcepts.jpg and http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/screenshots/sylvari/sylvari-03.jpg. If you still don't see the difference, compare the old Caithe with the new one. For starters, her hair texture is now leaf-like. --Life Infusion «T» 19:45, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I thought they looked like green painted dolls before; smooth, flat, dull. Caithe in particular. They didn't have any personality or integrity to them. Maybe it is simply the animated style of the poses but the new Sylvari seem to have a life and intelligence in their eyes which was missing before. Huge thumbs up on the redesign from me! -- aspectacle  22:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Move the Images

There really needs to be a big move. The images were clearly hastily uploaded to the wiki, without much consideration for where they really should go. Let me clarify this(And yes, I am experienced with texturing and can tell a render when I see it) every single Sylvari image released today is a render, EXCEPT for 2 of the figures on the Caithe picture(The other 2 figures are renders), and the Sylvari clothing picture. The latter of which I suspect is rendered Sylvari bodies with concept art clothing painted on. On the plus side, if you like the way that looks, you can be pretty much guaranteed that's what the Sylvari will look like when GW2 comes out.--Gerroh 01:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It's called being bold. In all the time it took you to write this out, you could have moved all of them. Aqua (T|C) 01:58, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Dunno how, figured you need permission to do it. Oh wait, there's a move tab. Still, figured it needs to be an admin.--Gerroh 02:04, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Generally speaking, any tabs that you can see are usable. Also, the task is completed. Aqua (T|C) 02:10, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It was I who uploaded the images, and I admit doing so in an incredible rush. Therefore I apologize. However, moving the images instead of complaining about their current location would not only be faster, but more mature. This is after all a wiki, where everybody is allowed to move files like these, and upon doing so (correctly), will be given no complaints. EDIT: Thank you Aqua.

Orrery

02:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I was the one who initially complained. I'm sorry, but I thought pages could only be moved by administrators and such (as it had been in the past, if I'm not mistaken). :) It is good to know we are given the resources to do this ourselves next time. And thank you for uploading the images. 173.190.25.97 19:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Photosynthesis

Do they do it? Considering the sylvari have all manner of leaves and branches (particularly atop their heads), it would make sense for them to use the sun as a minor source of energy even though they're omnivorous. Or is the foliage just decoration? 69.121.219.6 20:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Uhhhh. Probably, I guess. Whatever Anet says is what's "true". Could also just be decoration.--Gerroh 20:58, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

By Kerry's description, one could argue that their clothing is more or less part of them (both body and clothing coming from the same spot, more or less), so it would both be and not be decoration. I'd assume they do photosynthesize but nothing currently says such except in Ghosts of Ascalon, I recall Killeen being described as being more lively/brighter during the day than when in the crypts under Divinity's Reach. Konig/talk 22:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it would affect them much in-game, and if so, only as a skill. It COULD be an explanation to how a living leaf can stay alive without staying attached to the parent plant, so that simple science "a leaf will die without the plant" can't dispute their existance; or they could live by the all-answering "it's magic!" response... If they used a racial self-heal related to photosynthesis, something like "Absorb light to heal yourself. Changes effect during varying times of the day," while also having a passive heal effect to grant a stack of regen...? A skill like that would take advantage of sunlight (or even moonlight) and use photosynthesis that way without just being an appearance. The charr are very tech-y, and the norn have their spirits of the wild. Why wouldn't the plant race get a chance to seem like plants in both appearance and what they do in battle. ~~ Kiomadoushi 23:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Killeen's situation makes it sound as though photosynthesis provides them with some energy but not enough to forgo eating. Still, changing effect to be at all weaker (rather than different) during the night would be stupid. --ஸ Kyoshi 00:06, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Skills depending on the in-game time of day would be terrible. I was just asking from a lore standpoint--and thanks for reminding me of that part about Killeen, Konig.  :) I had figured it would be a sort of auxiliary source of energy if it happened at all. 69.121.219.6 00:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

They wouldn't need photosynthesis to stay alive without the parent planet, as they're omnivores. As in omnomnom everything. The photosynthesis would just be a bit of help on top of that. As they're sapient plants, something we have no experience with in the real world, all we can know or assume is what Anet tells us, whether it be directly, or through small hints in-game(Or that little bit from the story that was mentioned). Also, since when does technology reflect cats? >__>--Gerroh 01:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Ever since Shrödinger looked in a mirror? (if you got that one you're officially a geek)199.245.34.11 14:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Shrödinger isn't a cat. --ஸ Kyoshi 18:37, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

He is if you care more about anime crap than extremely important scientists. Or at least, as far as I've found out by searching wikipedia for 20 sec.--Gerroh 20:06, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Hellsing is not crap. Just sayin'.

"Photosynthesis is a chemical process that converts carbon dioxide into organic compounds, especially sugars, using the energy from sunlight." from wikipedia. Sylvari most likely need sunlight to live, just like it's harmful for (us) humans to go long periods without sunlight (effect on vitamin D production and seasonal disorders).

@IP 69.121... There are already some weapons and other things like events which depend on time of day. But if the effect during night was something else than, such skill was more likely to belong to utility skill slot. After all, it has been stated that sylvary have more skills which heal than other races. Mediggo 07:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

"After all, it has been stated that sylvary have more skills which heal than other races" Interesting, I don't recall such. Source? Konig/talk 08:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The comment about that in the article links to the first reference link. Ninth question, second paragraph. It's a rather off-handed mention, and it's an old interview, so it may be out of date. Interview quick link, for convenience. -Yossitaru 08:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

So, according to this interview, (located next to the picture of Caithe) Ree Soesbee says that the sylvari require food and water to survive, but can "feel rejuvenated" if they sit out in the sun. I'm going to go ahead and add that detail to the article. 69.121.219.6 23:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Gallery

Is there a specified Sylvari gallery for screenshots, concept art, renders, etc? I just got a bunch of hi-res Sylvari screenshots from the new video, and wanted to make sure someone else didn't already upload them, and where to put them.--Gerroh 18:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

There is this for concept art, but for screenshots and renders there is none. — orrery 18:48, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm. I'll make one, later, if I remember or have the time, then.--Gerroh 19:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Government

Perhaps we should list more of the details of government, as seen here. 173.190.25.97 04:00, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Whatcha mean, exactly? There's already a section for Sylvari#Government in the article. If you're talking about Nightmare Court, it's a separate, enemy faction of sylvari. Mediggo 06:21, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, specifically four of them lead the internal politics and responsibilities (Which we sort of have), another firstborn is ambassador to Divinity's Reach, etc. :) here 173.190.25.97 12:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Full Sylvari description quote

"The sylvari appear human at first glance, but that comparison breaks down almost immediately. Their flesh is made of vines and leaves, their hair of foliage and petals, and their bones of stronger wood. Golden sap moves through their veins, and pollen shakes from their flesh." --96.227.149.196 11:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

how far down the line are player sylvari?

What generation are player character sylvari? Thirdborn, fourthborn?, fifthborn? Or further? And I still think the firstborn are the least wise as the later groups would benefit from more knowledge being available to the Dream.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ramei Arashi (talk • contribs).

The knowledge from the Dream comes from the previous generations. - 05:00, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

To answer your question--we're not sure. We know they're not firstborn, and probably not secondborn. But, to paraphrase Caithe, you're either firstborn or just sylvari--whether you're thirdborn or eighthborn probably doesn't matter. Firstborn are considered the most wise because they have a special bond with the Pale Tree and have the most experience awakened on Tyria, which seems to be more "valuable" than the second-hand memories from the Dream. And, since no sylvari can pick what memories it receives from the Dream, the Pale Tree's total number of memories is probably unrelated to the number of memories that newly-awakened sylvari have access to. ~Ekko (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Apparently the new player introduction for sylvari will take place in the dream, so they are born when you start playing.

With more sylvari adding to the Dream more is avaialble for the Pale Tree to pass on, therefore the first born are not the most wise. And my original comment should not have shown up unsigned, I signed it. Ramei Arashi 05:54, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I believe I saw in an interview that the game begins in the Dream of Dreams, so the PC sylvari will be newborn. Furthermore, by the sounds of Cadeyrn's and Caithe's comments in the last blog post, it seems that sylvari became a lot more active from the secondborn on (Cadeyrn said there were a lot of sylvari in the Dream still and Caithe said that there there were "thousands" when Cadeyrn attempted to talk to the Pale Tree and was ignored, which happened before the Nightmare Court's beginning). I'm betting there are no "thirdborn" or on.

As for "wisest" - the firstborn are wisest in terms of experience. The sylvari know a portion of what older sylvar did (not everything, keep that in mind - this means that a newborn sylvari could come out dumber than the one just before it) while the firstborn came into the world knowing nothing, but the firstborn have experience and that makes them wiser. Some newborn will be smarter but not all, and they won't be as experienced and thus will be rash - hence less wise. Konig/talk 06:09, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Seems I was more or less right on the generations thing: "The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters." So now there's not really a "nthborn" as they're coming out all the time. [2]Konig/talk 09:40, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Ramei, your statement has the underlying assumption that the only wisdom is what is gained from the Pale Tree while discounting the wisdom that an individual Sylvari gains by living their life. What's more is that what the Sylvari gain from the Dream is not so much wisdom as shared experience and basic skills of day-to-day living. Even then, it has been mentioned that what a Sylvari takes from the Dream is but a sliver of the whole; they are not privy to the entire combined collective conscience of the Pale Tree and Sylvari race. Then, after awakening, there connection to the Pale Tree and other Sylvari weakens, dulls, fades a bit.

Their basic knowledge of the world comes from the Dream while their wisdom comes from personal experience after having awakened (wisdom being - in my opinion - how you choose to act based on the knowledge at your disposal). This will be a highly personal matter from Sylvari to Sylvari. So while it is possible that a laterborn Sylvari may achieve greater wisdom than a firstborn, it will be due to that individual's choices and experiences in life; not something directly granted to them by the Pale Tree/Dream itself. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 00:33, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Considering that arenanet has described the asura as knowledgeable but not wise and sylvari as wise but not knowledgeable I have to strongly disagree with your statement as the sylvari have only been around 25 years, the oldest hasn't had any time to develop personal wisdom. What wisdom they have has come from the Pale Tree and the tablet. So I say again, the younger sylvari actually have more wisdom than the first born since there is more to the dream with each generation. Ramei Arashi 18:33, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

The newborn only receive a small, small portion of the pool of knowledge the Dream has to offer. It is as Guild Wars 3 perhaps said, that "it has been mentioned that what a Sylvari takes from the Dream is but a sliver of the whole; they are not privy to the entire combined collective conscience of the Pale Tree and Sylvari race." This is a fact. Mediggo 20:03, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Ramei, the reason why you're wrong is because you're confusing wisdom with knowledge - they are not the same. The sylvari have more knowledge than the firstborn (or at least, more than them in comparison to waking), but they are not wiser than them. Wisdom comes from knowing what to do in a situation, not knowing those situations - in other words, insight. You do not need any knowledge to be wise. Konig/talk 20:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

König, I could read your comments all day. But basically, he's right. Also, ANet don't describe the asura as unwise. Some of them make decisions like those purposely - that doesn't make them unwise. If they weren't aware of their actions, that would be unwise. --Xu Davella 00:06, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Regardless, the sylvari don't see as much in the dream as each individual sylvari has seen in its lifespan so far. They may know more than the firstborn did than upon awakening, even know how to respond to situations, but they are in no way superior.

Consider this scenario: two people are looking at a room, one from viewing a fuzzy video feed camera panning around it a single time, and the other from going into the room and walking around it, studying patterns in the furniture and the names of books on a shelf. That's how I see the difference between the view the earlier-born get of the world and the visions the later-born see of that viewpoint. Little of the non-vital information is complete, and some isn't there at all, but the important thing is that the world is somewhat familiar. They still know less than the firstborn do, or the firstborn wouldn't be needed at the Grove to do whatever educating stuff they do. --ஸ Kyoshi 03:07, 22 September 2011 (UTC)