Talk:Thorned Cache

Feedback 2016/08/06

Got Ettinband from WvW track one (Auric Basin, tier 2). Can't tell what rarity this bag was. --The F. Prince (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Split?

The Basic version looks probable to be the same for all of the PvP/WvW Reward tracks and should be level dependent, although I have not yet tested. This is the one with item id 76960, which bears the in-game text of only "Consumable" and "Account Bound". I have begun documenting drops in my Sandbox User:Adeira Tasharo/Sandbox/Heart of Maguuma Reward Tracks. I do not yet have much data on the Fine or Rare versions, but will keep an eye out. Adeira Tasharo (talk) 21:38, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Are you saying that the basic version doesn't behave the same way as the other rarities? My first idea is that I'd rather not split it, following what happens with champion bags: Noxious Seed Pod or Half-Eaten Backpack. I'm looking at Saurian Cache, Saurian Cache (fine) and Saurian Cache (exotic), though, and I guess there would be an argument for separating the loot boxes from the map rewards if they're different. (I'd be in favor of merging the basic and exotic saurian caches, actually, but that's another discussion.) --Faelys 21:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

The contents are usually different for different varieties, no? However, this page is already neatly formatted without splitting, so I wouldn't recommend a split. Yes, that goes against the examples Faelys listed above, but those pages were created back when a consistent formatting hadn't already been decided. With that being said, if the containers differ in icon/description, split them. If the difference is just the contents, use level 3 headers (like on this page) to separate 'em. —Ventriloquist 09:24, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Different

• acquisition - in this case specifically: PvP/WvW Reward tracks for basic -vs- (iirc) PvE Meta for other rarities
• MF - PvP boxes are not supposed to be subject to MF -vs- "meta" boxes clearly state they are subject to MF
• drop table - for example: Ley Line Crystals -vs- Lumps of Aurillium in the "same" PvP box of differing source, or in champ boxes, specific named Exotics such as Crustacea
• description - may be reflective of contents
• level keyed - As I recall, the armor/weapon in both a PvP box and a champ box are keyed to the level of the char that opens it. The mats in a champ box are keyed to the rarity of the box, but would adjust with the level of the char in a PvP box. I don't know about "meta boxes".

Similar

• name
• theme - contents of the boxes are supposed to be themed off the drop table of the related foes, e.g. mushrooms, etc.

Comparison

• As a somewhat similar case, we lump together all champion boxes of the same name, of all rarities and sources (such as the Fallen Adventurer's Backpack), but the descriptions are all the same, though the conjoined drop data may cover up subtle differences. (For example, WvW champ boxes can contain recipes - see Embroidered Belt Pouch 44205 under User:Adeira Tasharo/Sandbox/PvP loot boxes)
• As a different case, we have individual articles for each version of a given "bag", such as Moldy: Tiny, Small, Light, Bag, Sack, Medium, Large, and Heavy.

Examples

• separated with disambiguation - Champion Mordrem Guard Cache
• partially split, needs addressing - Mag Wastes/TD/HoM version, AB version, and SW version

I lean towards separating the different versions, at least to a point. With different descriptions it seems we should, so that it doesn't seem a "bait & switch" on someone looking up an item. I'd be tempted to try to separate based on ID, since I suspect differences in the drop tables, but that could be hard to describe to a user not focusing on the ID? I'm less sure what to do with champ boxes. ((@Faelys - If we were to merge Saurian, we should merge Fine and Exotic as they should be the meta boxes. Basic should stay separate as the PvP box?)) Adeira Tasharo (talk) 01:04, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

I think having the same name and description vs having different ones is really a capital difference -- any user will look up something according to its name. Then, if there are more than one page, with a nugde, they'll look at rarity; they won't know how to look up the ID, and they'll get frustrated. That should account for the split of tiny, small... bags. As for champion bags, not splitting them by rarity/ID makes sense too, because most of them always have the same drop pattern: 1 piece of equipment, 1 mat, and maybe a random thing from a specific pool that's almost always the same. The subtle difference you talk about would be the kind of named exotics that could drop depending on the ID, and I think that's small enough of a difference to just make a note of it (when we actually have the info). The recipe seems to be a particularity of that specific kind of bag, much like some bags drop Drips of Liquid Karma and some don't; it doesn't have to affect the general formatting of bags. Instinctively, I'm all for separating PvP loot boxes from champion bags from those meta boxes, but I want to keep different rarities of a same kind together. I don't see a problem with the champ bag formatting we have right now, but I've been working a lot on them, so maybe I'm biased.

So my vote is split the PvP box away from the meta boxes, keep the meta boxes multiple rarities together and follow the champ bags' way of separating contents for those. Do the same for Saurian Boxes and any other box that behaves the same. We could name the meta box page "Thorned Cache" (or "Thorned Cache (Map bonus reward)", that's the most official term I can think of) and the PvP box "Thorned Cache (PvP Loot Box)", and put an otheruses tag up on both pages.

By the way, I'm starting to think we should make up a formatting guide for containers once we've come to a conclusion. --Faelys 04:50, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Yep, agreed with what Faelys said. That's the most official and consistent way to go about this, imo. —Ventriloquist 07:41, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. Let's keep Thorned Cache for meta related boxes of assorted rarities and I'll set up Thorned Cache (Heart of Maguuma Reward Track) as the other tracks are non-repeatable. I may not get to it immediately, but I'll look to make similar changes to the other PvP boxes that overlap meta boxes. Adeira Tasharo (talk) 22:52, 28 June 2017 (UTC)