Talk:Pain Cliffs

Bachelor of Baubles normal mode

Quick note: Bachelor of Baubles is doable on this map but only by doing the shortcut first and collecting the 5 baubles on top of the final bell. Then jump of into the abyss and back track from checkpoint 8 that the eagle unlocks for you. --Doctor Refrence (talk) 19:25, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

That may have been what I missed last year... G R E E N E R 18:17, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Normal Mode walkthrough

As the above comment suggests, a full bauble/assassin run is doable in Normal Mode, which nets more total baubles and (cough) a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Here is the general outline for Normal Mode. I wasn't sure if something like this should be integrated into the existing walkthrough. Putting it here at least for posterity.

Start by clearing out everything to checkpoint 3.

After checkpoint 3, do NOT take the flower launcher across the gap toward checkpoint 4. Instead, clear out the assassins and baubles on the current side of the gap, and take the shortcut eagle.

The eagle puts you above checkpoint 13, but do NOT drop down and activate it. Collect the 5 baubles on the structure and then jump into the abyss.

You will respawn at checkpoint 10. Clear out the platforms after checkpoint 10, but do NOT activate checkpoint 11.

From here you will essentially run the level in reverse. Clear out everything back to checkpoint 4, including the area on the other side of the gap from where you took the shortcut eagle. The paths back to previous checkpoints are fairly straightforward with some strategically placed clouds between areas. (The optimal reverse-completion path is not necessarily strictly linear back through the checkpoints, but that is left as an exercise for the reader.) Falls and deaths will always put you at checkpoint 10, so the further back in the level you get, the longer the return trek will be after a mistake.

Once everything before checkpoint 11 is clear, you have two options:

• The simpler option is to go to checkpoint 5 and take the cloud path on the right side of the building to the flower launcher that sends you to the fluffy cloud area before checkpoint 12.

• Or you can take the checkpoint 11 path (and grab the furniture shop there if you need it), and jump across the pillars and clouds to checkpoint 13. Then, use the clouds to jump over the checkpoint 12 gate to backtrack to the fluffy cloud area.

Clear out the remaining assassins (and grab the fluffy cloud furniture shop if you need it) and finish the level.

Mayhap (talk) 15:53, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the guide! I've been thinking that our SAB walkthroughs need an overhaul; the walkthrough for each zone should probably be limited to a straightforward "here's how to complete the level, and here are the optional shops and shortcuts", and things like extensive bauble routes, hidden non-shop rooms, and trib mode should have their own walkthroughs on their respective achievement articles, which we can link to in an achievements section below the walkthrough on the zone article (akin to our approach for mission articles). Your suggestion here would make an excellent template for the baubles/assassin achievements. :) --Idris (talk) 16:29, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I totally second this. ~Mervil 17:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Depending on how achievement guides would be organized, note that the convoluted route is really only necessary for the bauble achievement. (This is also true of the current Infantile Mode walkthrough.) If one's goal is just assassins or hidden rooms achievement I imagine those could be done in a straightforward linear run. Mayhap (talk) 18:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I've created a quick mockup of how I think walkthroughs could be restructured (using Sunny Glade as an example); I changed my mind about splitting baubles and hidden rooms off to their own articles, as I think I found a way of organizing the information clearly enough that people can easily find the bits they need. What do we think? --Idris (talk) 13:36, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

I actually really like that! Seems like a lot of work, but it looks nice. The use of "optional" is a great idea. I like the detailed summary for each checkpoint too. ~Mervil 14:39, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the work is worth it. My eyes glaze over when I look at the current walkthroughs; they desperately need structuring. Thanks for the praise! --Idris (talk) 14:52, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

To answer your question on your mockup, dig spots do not count towards bauble collecting achievement. ~Mervil 15:12, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Mockup looks great, the individual steps instead of paragraphs make it really easy to follow. Re: your edits, consider keeping dig spot icons, someone may be willing to go out of their way for a +50 but not a +10. Maybe needs a good way of distinguishing the actual reason for each optional step? Mayhap (talk) 17:10, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm trying to think of a way I can mark dig spots without using a big attention-grabby bauble icon. I thought about putting shovel or chest icons at the start of each line, so you know from the get-go what the source is. I'd have to create some new icons for that, but it might be worth it. The alternative is to just write out digspot baubles in words, e.g. "dig here for a purple bauble", and let the digging spot table do all the heavy lifting. I'd like to keep that table anyway, since it's such a handy summary for dailies. --Idris (talk) 17:46, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

If you're going to start splitting between modes, I suggest moving what is currently here to an achievement guide or something and let the walkthroughs be simply how to complete the actual level, since people do not usually go crazy collecting all the baubles in Tribulation mode unless you're a sadist or Josh Foreman or something. - Do_odleplex 17:56, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Nobody with any sense would attempt to do achievements in trib mode! Don't worry, I'm splitting the trib walkthrough to its own page purely to conserve space; the walkthrough itself will only cover the essentials. :) --Idris (talk) 18:02, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

(Uh I actually found a Youtube video of a dude on a charr I think collecting all the baubles in Trib mode. So. =x) - Do_odleplex 18:04, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Hardcore enthusiasts like that probably prefer figuring it out for themselves anyway. :P The actual locations can still be referenced via the normal walkthrough. --Idris (talk) 18:10, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Okay, I've turned the mockup into a fully-fledged draft. The dig spot baubles vs. achievement baubles problem turned out to be easy to solve: I just added numbers to the achievement baubles. I'm pretty happy with this draft; any further thoughts or criticisms before I go ahead and add it to the real page? --Idris (talk) 05:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Not sure I agree with naming the areas, especially so prominently in the section header, makes it seems like they are official in-game names. Maybe instead have a small 1 or 2 line area description along with the summary. Could also chop up the overhead map to show each area, and/or have an in-game screenshot near each checkpoint to orient the reader. Other than that looks good to me. Mayhap (talk) 21:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I wouldn't want people to think these are official names, but I'd really like to have a user-friendly label for each section that appears in the ToC. Adding a brief description to the summary is a good thought, but it doesn't solve the ToC problem. Good idea about the map -- I was planning on chopping out the mazes anyway, so I might as well do every section! --Idris (talk) 21:54, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Unknown secret?

I've found another secret (I may not be the first one I guess) above the Hillbilly Still on the way to the Raccoon Kingpin.

to get it opened I think that was in the secret room #5 when I threw bombs on all walls just to check. Any info on this?

~Abbygaëlle (talk) 18:45, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sure that is the hole the racoons come from, isn't it? -Doctor Refrence (talk) 22:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

You're correct Doctor Refrence, that's what it is. - Do_odleplex 16:44, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Gong pagoda trivia

I am not sure where to put it so I will just place it here. Apparently the gong pagoda in this level is based on Indiana Jones and the temple of doom. Specifically this scene. -Doctor Refrence (talk) 09:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Updated map that then became revert hell

Made a small update on the large map Pain_Cliffs_map.jpg to add the numbered waypoints, but managed to get confused when it didn't appear to upload (browser caching?) Could a kind admin please point the image file to the version with the timestamp 13:37, 9 April 2021‎? Thanks! Hypo (talk) 14:04, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Likely a mixture of browser client-side caching, wiki server-side caching, and potentially the Image cache bug we've got going at the moment. -Chieftain Alex 16:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)