Talk:Fractals of the Mists/Archive 1

Diminishing Returns Question

Was anything said about diminishing returns for this dungeon? it sounds as if it's encouraged to keep at it for a while; however, I'm assuming there will still be some form of diminishing returns for staying at it, especially if there are token rewards and the standard dungeon rewards. I'm also just asking as a google search did not turn up anything, so I apologize if nothing has been said about it.173.88.250.197 22:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't have any answers for you, but I have another question to add. Has anything been stated about what, if any, condition needs to be met to qualify for the "dungeons completed" monthly achievement? Manifold 23:45, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Dungeons completed simply tracks dungeon completions. Repeats count, story and explorable both count. No clue how it relates to this new dungeon, though. —Dr Ishmael 23:47, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

We don't know the rewards for the dungeon, so it's impossible to say--Relyk 23:50, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Robert Hrouda confirmed on Saturday 16-Nov that there were no diminishing returns at all in the FoTM. I'm sorry I don't have the link handy to back this up, but I assure you that he said it.74.193.70.55 02:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Calling them Minidungeons or Fractals

Just a naming question. The blog post states that they call the minidungeons "Fractals", and they then use that term throughout the rest of the blog, never calling it a minidungeon again. Should we use that term for the different minidungeons on this page as well (Fractal 1, Fractal 2, instead of Minidungeon, Minidungeon 2)? If not now, then perhaps after we have more information on each to distinguish them? Vahkris 20:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Yup, fractal is a better word. It's just a placeholder since the fractals likely have their own names.--Relyk 20:35, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. I've been correcting this where I can in the general text prior to Relyk's update. The recent Fractals article refers to the Fractals as both "mini-dungeons" (hyphenated, if we want to be picky) and "fractals," but for the purpose of this content I think we should primarily refer to them as fractals, especially in headers. --Naptown14 Talk 20:40, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I found this article: http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-fractals-mists-guide-defeating-arenanets-infinite-dungeon. It describes and gives a name for each, but I did notice that each one has a very generic name and I think they may just be a name the author chose. The Searing one is listed as "Urban Warfare" so I don't think they're official. Vahkris 22:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

split?

Are we going to split this info up into one page per fractal (as the Locations section implies), or just dump all the info for all 9 fractals on this one page? I say split. —Dr Ishmael 01:12, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, came here to ask the same question. ~~Preau 01:26, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I very much agree to this. The page just feels like a big mess with every walkthrough and every NPC shoved together like this. 217.211.107.44 14:24, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I split them up and moved each of the fractal-specific info to the respective page. ~~Preau 15:42, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

You stole my idea, I was 3 minutes earlier :D Thanks for great job, I'm not very familiar with the wiki syntaxes. --Malgalad 15:49, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I noticed you made a few but you also cleaned up the walkthroughs and stuff, I didn't do that. ~~Preau 15:50, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

The locations are for areas, no different than any other dungeon. I don't see why walkthroughs should go there. NPCs being there makes sense, but only there kind of makes differences with other dungeon pages. Cleaning the sections (especially walkthroughs) was needed, but I dunno 'bout removing em entirely. Would seem kind of silly to force players to load additional pages per fractal. Konig/talk 18:06, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Once the walkthroughs are cleaned up and made presentable, I think they could go back on this page. But until we get some general conformity on the walkthroughs, this page would look too unruly with nine walkthroughs on it. -- MS 18:09, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

No weekly reset as widely rumored

We finally got direct Anet dev confirmation that there is no weekly reset as purported by the mmorpg.com preview: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Concerned-about-weekly-fractal-reset/first#post776705 74.193.70.55 02:01, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Boss Fractal

I guess, we should add some tactics for the Jade Maw boss, since it's pretty "refined". Any ideas how to name the fractal? --Malgalad 06:30, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I thought the Jade Maw boss was in the Solid Ocean fractal and not a separate one. Vahkris 15:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, never mind. I thought boss fractal is the tenth one, since previously was said that players will face three random fractals out of nine, but actually out of eight... Didn't read the walkthrough, my mistake --Malgalad 15:42, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

level note

I think it is worth mentioned somewhere that:

Playing with a lower level dungeon does not help increase your dungeon level. So if you are at fractal level 3, joining a group level 2, and finishing the dungeon does not help you reach level 4.

Moreover the lowest dungeon player will always be the max level the dungeon can be. So if everyone have access level to level 20, and one player have access to level 4, the group can only do level 4 maximum. Yes4me 10:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

How does one increase their personal reward level? I can't seem to get mine past 2 99.249.182.150 14:57, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

total incorrect

Almost every total for "Standard Fractal Relics" are wrong. Is there a reason for so many addition mistakes? The correct table should be:

Level	Standard Fractal Relics	Bonus	Total
1	3 Chests with 5 each	No Bonus	15
2	3 Chests with 5 each	Chest with 15 + 20 bonus	35
3	3 Chests with 5 each	No Bonus	15
4	3 Chests with 5 each	Chest with 15 + 20 bonus	35
5	3 Chests with 5 each	No Bonus	15
6	3 Chests with 6 each	Chest with 18 + 20 bonus	38
7	3 Chests with 6 each	No Bonus	18
8	3 Chests with 6 each	Chest with 18 + 20 bonus	38
9	3 Chests with 6 each	No Bonus	18
10	3 Chests with 6 each	Chest with 18 + 20 bonus	38
11	3 Chests with 7 each	No Bonus	21
12	3 Chests with 7 each	Chest with 21 + 20 bonus	41
13	3 Chests with 7 each	No Bonus	21
14	3 Chests with 7 each	Chest with 21 + 20 bonus	41
15	3 Chests with 7 each	No Bonus	21
16-20	3 Chests with 8 each
21-25	3 Chests with 9 each

Yes4me 20:03, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Why? Every even scale there's bonus lvl. It give you 1 bonus chest from jade maw and 1 bonus chest from daily. E.g. scale two, you own 5x3 relics from 3 fractals, then 15 from jade maw chest, then 20 from daily chest. 5x3+15+20=50. --Malgalad 20:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I just did level 9. We end up with 18 fractal relics, not including the day bonus (if you still don't have it). Yes4me 08:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Now do lvl 10 and post here how many relics did you get. --Malgalad 08:39, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

No promotion

me and a guildy did level 1 all the way to the end last night, god all 3 chest did all the sections ect,now we can still only go to level 1 someone wanna explain this to me?66.223.168.50 10:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

afaik, level increases not if you complete all fractals, but if you return to the observatory after the last fractal. If you quit to LA after the chest, it's a possible situation, if not - you probably should write to the support. --Malgalad 11:47, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

List of fight mechanics changes by difficulty level

It would be helpful to list the individual fight mechanics (on the respective fractals pages), along with with the changes/additions of the mechanics by level. E.g., for the Uncategorized Fractal "Old Tom" fight, charging of the batteries is unnecessary at lower difficulties - required at higher ones; Old Tom casts a chain lightning effect at higher levels, but not at lower ones.--71.95.73.74 10:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I wish there was a slider, like in the Wowhead for spells (e.g. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55095), but it requires a lot of work, new scripts, new templates etc. IMO, that wouild be awesome - you select your level and your read only what you should do for this particular level. --Malgalad 11:55, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Does it kick up player level?

I am level 41. Will it increase my stats if I go to the dungeon......or do I have to wait until 80

Yes, it will increase your level. However, you won't be able to perform well after lvl 10 for sure and, probably, lvl 5, because of lack of skills and gear. --Malgalad 15:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Locations

I'm not sure why we have the second column? Mistlock observatory should also not be included in the "Fractals" table as it is not a fractal itself? I think we should proof for the future where they will possibly add more fractals (but not more hubs) and also possibly more "bonus" fractals. Thus a short line indicating the starting zone for the fractals (which should be abundantly clear from all the other material written on the page, but we can still add that one liner there) then a table for the base 8 fractals that can be encountered and a separate table or line for the bonus fractal that is encountered. I'm not averse to the bonus being listed along with the 8 before, I just don't understand why we wouldn't want to keep things somewhat organized and separated. I undid this once, I feel bad doing it twice without discussing it here first.

I would also like to discuss how for some reason someone is saying descriptions are unncessary. To me this is a point of contention, as for many new comers it is not clear which fractal is which (why should they have to open new pages to figure out a cursory idea of whcih fractal is named what?). It'd be nice if you brainstormed the pros and cons of adding a sentence ONLY to each line. If anything the second column is unnecessary. Highly unnecessary.99.23.26.187 23:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC) also Freshberrysmoothie 01:22, 25 December 2012 (UTC) (my bad, wasn't logged in)

Fractals are areas, albeit a special kind of area due to having checkpoints instead of waypoints. They are still locations with Fractals of the Mists, Mistlock Observatory is as much an area as the fractals. Separating them isn't the right approach. "It’s built of an array of mini-dungeons" [1], so yes, they qualify as mini-dungeons Konig ^^.-- _talk 00:07, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

It's not a fractals table - it's a locations table. The fractals are, mechanically, areas (and @Relyk: mini-dungeons are, by function, locations that are or are within areas which feature puzzles, peculiar enemies, and ends with a chest - so they are both mini-dungeons and areas, but for documentive purposes and considering this dungeon's nature, they should be treated solely as areas otherwise we'd be having the area names listed twice in the table). And because it's a locations table it should not be labeled "Fractals" nor should it exclude the Mistlock Observatory.

Furthermore, there is no need for descriptions - the descriptions are on the fractals individual pages. The table should look the same as Ascalonian Catacombs#Locations, Caudecus's Manor#Locations, Sorrow's Embrace#Locations and so forth - thing is, Fractals doesn't have Points of Interests or Waypoints, so most lines are using "—" but that's it. Konig/talk 01:01, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I find this disconcerting as there are dungeons that can be run as quickly as fractals. But fractals do behave and act differently than a dungeon would. As we have lists of dungeons on the dungeon page and a list of jumping puzzles on the jumping puzzle page I think we should have a list of Fractals on the fractals page. There is nothing to say that each fractal shouldn't be given a little more information as the dungeons overview page could. Whether we consider fractals a mini dungeon or a mini puzzle, the fact is that they are not areas we can find on the map. Thus the locations should be kept to as real locations as possible. None of the maps when we get in fractals are labelled with any sort of information, thus suggesting we not treat them like other maps or locations or areas but, perhaps?, as "fractals". People do refer to them by name and if someone searches "fractals" and comes to this page, they shouldn't have to go through each sub-page to figure out which fractal someone else was referring to. I would've assumed this would be somewhat laid out like this page: Dungeons#List_of_dungeons or Jumping_puzzles#List_of_jumping_puzzles. After all considering this is Fractals of the Mists and not something that at all pertains to 100% map complete, we should probably not put priority on locations over the fractals themselves. Freshberrysmoothie 01:21, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Another argument I'd like to make to point out that though this is a dungeon it should not be treated exactly as a dungeon is that there is no "explorable" mode on this dungeon. Nor a story mode. It also is the only dungeon that can progressively get harder. As far as I know this dungeon also has nothing to do with the story lines (in the sense of characters). Though they share the dungeon symbol and the relic symbol, there are also no waypoints, location names, or repair stations within the fractals themselves. Another deviance from the usual dungeon set up is the fact that there is no need to complete "Fractals" in order to get "Dungeon master". The fact that the achievement for dungeon master doesn't require a single fractal run should suggest that though we consider the fractals a dungeon that we should perhaps start acclimating ourselves to the fact that it's not *exactly* a dungeon. It could even have it's own place area on the dungeons page akin to mini-dungeons. That's not an argument I'd like to start, but I'm just saying, it makes much more sense to keep the original story/explorable dungeons seperate from the fractals. At least to me Freshberrysmoothie 01:29, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

"I think we should have a list of Fractals on the fractals page" There is no fractal page, and the locations section for Fractals of the Mists already lists the fractals. "the fact is that they are not areas we can find on the map" Go into the dungeon, press M - you'll see the area you're in. Just like any other dungeon, you'll see the areas. You cannot see the areas in the open world, but they're still on a map! "None of the maps when we get in fractals are labelled with any sort of information" I dunno what's wrong with your map, but when I press M inside the dungeon, it lists the area names just as any other dungeon does. The only difference between this dungeon and normal dungeons map-wise is that it only shows the area you're currently in. "we should probably not put priority on locations over the fractals themselves" The fractals are the locations - the only difference is that the IP wants to remove Mistlock Observatory, which is an equal level of location to the fractals from the lists - something that serves absolutely no purpose and breaks consistency in the wiki.

"there is no "explorable" mode on this dungeon" Actually, it's that there's no story mode. Same goes for Ascent to Madness and Tixx's Infinirarium. So its not like its unique in that regard - and those dungeons' location tables are set up exactly the same, though they only hold 1 area (the dungeon's name no less). "location names, or repair stations within the fractals themselves" Wrong on the location names (go in the dungeon, press M, trust me, you'll see location names), and there is a repair station in the Mistlock Observatory - there's no repair station in, for instance, Foefire's Heart in Ascalonian Catacombs, but there is in the dungeon. Same situation here - because all fractals plus the obervatory area make up one dungeon, so it'd be unusual if each fractal had their own repair station since they're just one area within the dungeon.

In short: The differences between this dungeon and other dungeons is 1) there is no story mode (something shared with festival dungeons, however), 2) it only shows the area you're presently in, and 3) its potentially endless. Map wise, and more importantly for this discussion, location mechanics wise, they are exactly the same. Konig/talk 02:01, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

"There is no fractal page" Sorry I meant the Fractals of the Mists page. That page exists. "I dunno what's wrong with your map, but when I press M inside the dungeon" I meant information akin to what we see in Dungeons. There are pois, wps, and some more information on the map pages of dungeons. There is only the area or "fractal" name when you hit M like you mentioned. "The fractals are the locations" okay, according to this Location you are correct. It still doesn't mean we should list all the fractals together. I think it makes a tonne of sense to list the fractals that people NORMALLY think of when you say "fractal" as a table instead of every single location inside the fractals. Even if the fractals themselves are locations inside the fractal, is there no distinguishment between the "hub" area and what is commonly referred to as the "fractals"? And again, when people say "There is no repairer in fractals" they aren't referring to the one fractal where no fighting occurs. I think a lot of miscommunication is occuring based on the "common definition" of 'fractals'. I was mistaken about the story mode/explorable mode of the fractals thing. I had actually NEVER noticed that before -- nice catch. I still don't understand why there's "no point" to keeping the fractals that are commonly referred to by the gaming community separate from the fractal everyone starts in. I suppose that's only because of the strict theming purpose of this site. But I would've figured it's obvious why there are good reasons to keep a table of what most people are looking for in a discrete set as opposed to clumping everything together (I know "everything" is just one or two more items in the list, but still). Is there any way to make it at least so that the Mistlock is number ONE on the list and the bonus fractal is LAST on the list? Instead of simply alphabetical? At the very least that would make more sense too, wouldn't it? 99.23.26.187 03:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

---

That addresses the area part of the fractal, but we still need to address the mini-dungeon part. The fractals are essentially the dungeon itself, we need an overview of all the fractals mini-dungeons for the dungeon. That means descriptions to give the idea for the content of the dungeon with reading through each subpage. Because you're splitting the area part from the mini-dungeon part for the section as you treat it like other dungeons, you end up needing another section to address the mini-dungeons. That would be a horrible solution though.-- _talk 04:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

"There are pois, wps, and some more information on the map pages of dungeons." And? There are areas which lack these things too - both in dungeons and outside dungeons. E.g., Ossuary Crypts has no PoI, WP, or what have you. So does that mean we just toss out conformity for half of the dungeon areas? Fuck no! We just mark the fact it has no PoI or WP with — and guess what, not everyone will know that there are no PoI or WP in the dungeon (specifically, those who never had the pleasure of doing them fully, or at all), so how the hell are we supposed to denote "there's no PoI or WP"? A note can do, but why should we break consistency?

"It still doesn't mean we should list all the fractals together." You do realize that you're wanting to do that too. What I'm wanting to do is to keep consistency, which means keeping Mistlock Observatory in the same table as the other areas, which fractals - despite their nickname established due to their naming system - are.

"I still don't understand why there's "no point" to keeping the fractals that are commonly referred to by the gaming community separate from the fractal everyone starts in." Because we're not making a list of fractals, we're making a list of locations in the dungeons - which just so happens to remain with only areas and one asura gate. You do realize that the list will be having your so desired list of fractals whether we go with your concept or mine, the difference is the third arbitrary column of descriptions and including Mistlock Observatory - so let me ask you: what benefit is there to omiting Mistlock Observatory from the list of areas, in order to make it a list of fractals (literally just one entry of difference) and including these descriptions - what do these descriptions add that folks cannot get by clicking a link? Perhaps this whole mess wouldn't begin if we just kept the walkthroughs on this page, but hey others wanted to keep them to their own area since as Relyck said they function as their own mini-dungeon. Still: those descriptions add next to nothing, and the little they added is arbitrary at best (thus unneeded). And to break consistency for that? Seems outright silly to me.

Similarly, is there a point to wanting "the Mistlock is number ONE on the list and the bonus fractal is LAST on the list"? No, there isn't, because there is no "bonus" fractal (it's just an added set-in-stone-in-order location visited, and there's no need to make Mistlock the first either.

Unless you tell me why these things you want is actually helpful, I can't see why we should do such. There's no true benefit to it all.

"we still need to address the mini-dungeon part" My suggestion would be to move the walkthroughs back onto this article, but my view was the minority in that, so they got moved to individual pages. Now let me ask: is there really a need to address the mini-dungeon part? This article already states these are mini-dungeons and the descriptions actually don't address it at all - it's no different than adding a description to the dungeons explaining what's in each area - e.g., in Mausoleum of the Khan-Ur in CoF, you fight Gaheron Baelfire's ghost and the Eternal Flame; same concept. Unnecessary. Konig/talk 04:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The page would be too long to include actual walkthroughs. You have to be careful with calling it just a mini-dungeon. They aren't mini-dungeons in the same sense as persistent mini-dungeons (hence why they have their own section on the mini-dungeon page). Fractals are mini-dungeons contained within a dungeon instance in self-contained areas with unique mechanics specific to Fractals of the Mists, such as Agony and checkpoints. We can describe what a fractal is as much as we want, but people will still want to know, on the page about the dungeon which contains these fractals, what the fuck they actually are. What I would propose is similar to gw1:Hero's Handbook, give each fractal an "official" summary and stick in the loading screen/screenshot of the fractal. It would be similar to "Guild Wars 2 Fractal Guides In 200 Words Or Less! (I found this while writing), readers would like that a lot more than having to go directly to the subpages to get an idea what each fractal is about.-- _talk 15:06, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Konig, this is a very unique dungeon, so I think it's acceptable for it to not "conform" to other dungeon pages. It doesn't make sense to have a table of locations for this dungeon, because there is no information like waypoints/PoIs to present in that table. There's no reason to have a table at all - a bulleted list would work better, and allow us to include summaries of each fractal like Relyk is suggesting. Also, unlike other dungeons, the order of the list does matter for this dungeon: Mistlock Observatory is the lobby, not just another area in the dungeon, so logically it should be listed first. Solid Ocean Fractal is a "boss" or "bonus" level, not just a standard fractal level, so it should be listed last. —Dr Ishmael 15:37, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Dr Ishmael. I'm really bad at explaining what I"m trying to say, so I apologize. I can tell from your tone that you're frustrated with my writing. To me it just made no sense to have a second column where only one entry required it. Also because, regardless of other dungeons, when people look up fractals (or for instance "dungeons" in general) they are looking for the list of "fractals" that people PLAY, not chill in and sell their gear in; similar to the dungeons that people PLAY in.

I do agree that you're right that mistlock is a fractal. But the strict adherence to this table set up is silly. I'm not asking for a complete break where nothing follows any rules, but more that we allow ourselves to customize or tweak some aspects of the design rules that make pages more informative, efficient, and without redundancies. That, to me, is the point of this wiki. When you have a column that literally only one entry uses, and is the fractal which isn't similar to every other fractal on that list the whole section should be re-thought (I think, again this is opinion -- you may disagree). There is, frankly, less effect to the "locations" table than there would be to the "mini-dungeons" version that has been hinted above. If we can't call it "locations" so be it, let's think up a new term specific to Fractals that we can use as the header which lists very simply the fractals that people need information on.

What do you think people care about more and what would help the community more? Again, I'm not asking for complete anarchy on all wiki pages. Just a little more leniency on this section perhaps. And if the manner in which I've asked this is offending, I sincerely apologize. I love to help out on this wiki and to add more information, etc. I would hate to be banned/restricted over such a thing as this. Freshberrysmoothie 04:31, 5 January 2013 (UTC) (on a random sidenote, how do you get your signature to look cool like that? i tried googling, no cigar)

Also PS "No, there isn't, because there is no "bonus" fractal (it's just an added set-in-stone-in-order location visited, and there's no need to make Mistlock the first either." The rest of the article here mentions this "bonus" fractal (partly due to my re-write of the article, admittedly). But many people refer to it this way. Whether anet does or not directly within the game I don't know. But definitions are for among people, and among the community the jade maw is referred to as the "bonus" fractal. So it *does* exist ;) Check the talk page of the Jade maw where this is also discussed a bit. Talk:Solid_Ocean_Fractal Freshberrysmoothie 04:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

January 28th 2013 update

I just did a run with a pug at level 27 and some things were changed. The most obvious are Rabsovich in the dredge fractal, he cannot be kited out of his room and the part where people used to jump on the wheels to nuke him go fixed as well. You have to do an old fashioned beatdown on him. The dredge powersuit got nerfed badly, it used to be that bombs one shotted you, not so anymore, the bombs scatter more and have a smaller aoe zone. The dredge boss himself does not hit as hard anymore, his aoe won't take out all your health in 1 hit. Another change is the grawl shaman, his aoe is a bit more forgiving and it seems the ads don't hit as hard, they still pack a mean punch, but 3 hits won't down you. Darkshadow 23:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I did a run with a new character today (fractal lvl 1) with a party setting in at fractal lvl 10. My character helped complete it, but did not get the reward.... bug? Xamtos 23:39, 28 January 2013

Karma rewards for doing lower levels, I (fractal reward level 36) did a fractal level 8 and got 7040 karma. I don't know if that's a set number or something but data never hurts.173.88.250.197 03:41, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Tried to get Daily and Jade Maw Bonus Chests today...basically tried to get 2 additional Chests in the same day. Didn't work out, according to a previous Topic (Summary: Totally Wrong) you'd get a Bonus Chest for defeating Jade Maw and for doing it Daily. For what i can tell for sure, is that I did only get a Bonus-Chest one Time out of 2 Runs killing Jade Maw. So, Killing Jade Maw is definetely only rewarded one-time/day with a bonus of fractal relics within difficulty Scale 1-10, and no sing of a 2nd Chest. Last time i also only got one Bonus Chest for doing Jade Maw, and it was probably only the Jade-Maw-Bonus chest. I'm not 100% sure, but if there's supposed to be a Daily-Fractals-Chest then i'm not getting it (anymore?). Or is this the Daily Chest? Waiting for Input from others to clarify this. Grusi 23:09, 6 February 2013 (GMT+1)

The daily chest is awarded for each even tier of fractals being completed for the first time each 24 hour server cycle. If your character has not reached the required level it will not be awarded the chest. For instance, A is at level 1 (L1) fractal, participates in fractal L2, and is not awarded the daily chest. Player B is at Fratal L36, participates in fractal levels 2, 6, 18, 22, and 30; Player B will receive a "daily" chest for completing Level 2, 18, 22, and 30, but player B will not receive a daily chest for level 6 (as Level 6 is in the same tier as Level 2 -- Levels 1-9). Player C completes Fractal 2 before dailies reset at 4 PM PST and then does Fractal 4 after the reset; Player C will receive two "daily" chests. I hope this helps clarify Fresh Berry Smoothie 22:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Dungeon?

Even though it shares the icon as other dungeon entrances, completing it (at least completing the 3-4 fractal cycle) doesn't count for "Monthly Dungeon Participation" achievement, so it is only logical to separate FotM as an instance totally separate than other dungeons, right? 95.180.84.110 23:56, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't count for monthly dungeon participation because FotM has its own monthly achievement.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

It having a separate achievement just adds to the presumption that it's not a dungeon like the others, also it doesn't add to the Dungeon Master title. But I've just checked the GW2 site, and on the "Lost Shores" update it's clearly stated that it's a "new dungeon" so i guess my ranting was for nothing. 95.180.84.110 05:50, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I've gone through this same difficulty in logic as you. I feel your pain. Fresh Berry Smoothie 22:34, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Well it is a dungeon as you enter it through a portal. But then it isnt a dungeon. You do not need Agony resist in the dungeons, but there are no silver framed mobs in the fractals. You do not have a story/exploration mode but a difficulty level, you get many chests with a good droprate instead of sucky chests and a few tokens for way harder work in the dungeons. There are plenty of reasons why fractals are not the same category of dungeon as the others. In other games you can see the difference in achievments that say "kill a raid boss" and "kill a dungeon boss", but in the end a raid is still a dungeon, just with more players, many differences, same thing in general. Magistrella 22:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Game mechanics all point towards it not being a dungeon. Guild influence doesn't grant dungeon influence for it, it doesn't count towards dungeon completion, and it does not have dungeon reward mechanics. They are something else entirely, in terms of mechanics. That said, they effectively are dungeons because they are named as such in prose and are approached in exactly the same manner. Not the first time this game shows us inconsistencies. - Infinite - talk 13:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be a similar case to how cities are a special type of zone where waypoints are free and you only get transmutation stones for map completion. —Dr Ishmael 14:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

They are mini-dungeons, not dungeons, so it's not really unexpected.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:50, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Relyk, I updated the page to say "special" and updated the notes to include comments here.A Liability 01:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

"Factor"

Why is this article calling a set of 10 fractal difficulty levels a "factor"? If that's an official term, where does it come from? If not, why are we making up such a non-sensical term? How about "tier", "set", or something with the "deca-" prefix? --Felbryn 21:19, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Probably because it's a "factor", not "set"? IMO, the idea is like "10th lvl is 2x harder, then 1st, 20th lvl - 3x harder" etc., meaning that difficulty scale is periodic and proportional, and derives from the first 9 levels. Malgalad 22:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

If you expect that argument to be taken seriously, I need to see a rigorous explanation of how you are quantifying difficulty and the experiments that you performed to determine that fractal level 27 is precisely 3.0 times as hard as fractal level 7. Otherwise, everything you just said is nonsense. --Felbryn 23:06, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Tier is the term that I used, not sure who changed it. Regardless factor can be used loosely the same as tier "Noun - A circumstance, fact, or influence that contributes to a result or outcome", and the tier of the fractal level does indeed act as a factor to the difficulty of the fractal. However, I believe someone just wanted to get all math-y on it due to the name fractal and used the word factor. Tier is more commonly used in the gaming community to mean the same thing. I vote we use "tier" Fresh Berry Smoothie 16:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

That is a possible meaning of "factor", but even by that definition the tens digit can't be "the difficulty factor", because that would imply that it is the only "circumstance, fact, or influence that contributes to" the difficulty, and I'm reasonably sure there's also some difference in difficulty between level 10 and level 19. At most it could be a factor, which is not how the article is currently written. --Felbryn 17:52, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to change the article as you see fit. I'll post back with discussion material if required. Fresh Berry Smoothie 18:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Karma Reward

I was curious how much karma was rewarded. Current stats:

Personal Reward Level	Fractal Level	Karma
32	2	6560
33	4	6720
38	2	6560
38	8	7040
38	28	8640

It seems like there is a cap depending on the fractal level. Any ideas, or more numbers? ( Kalel 18:40, 10 March 2013 (UTC))

Seems easy enough The formula is: 6400 + (fractal level * 80) (Guardian Erik 23:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC))

Feeling quite stupid right now.... But thanks (Kalel 19:15, 12 March 2013 (UTC))

For the record, I got much less karma than this (~2500 in level 10 or 12) in at least one instance. I'm guessing that your personal reward level increases the karma earned up to some point (I'm only level 15 to Kalel's 33-38), but that would need to be confirmed. --Felbryn 18:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I suspect the formula is more along the lines of: (640 + ( 8 * Completed difficulty) ) * ( Personal Reward - Completed ) Where Personal - Completed is still capped at 10. This formula scans with the data in the table above and provides values of 3600 and 2208 for 10 and 12 in the above users case of being at lvl 15 rewards Joironfist (talk) 11:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Getting the daily

Is it still necessary for one to "unlock" each even level to receive the daily from it, or do they just need to be in that level, having gained access from a group member (noting that this used to be impossible)? I seem to have gotten inconsistent results. 76.253.0.17 14:41, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the question. Your reward is limited by the lower of the level you're playing or your personal level (so if your personal level is 8 but your group is playing level 12, you'll get the reward from level 8), and daily rewards are per tier (levels 1-9, 10-19, etc.), so if you already got a daily reward from level 4, you can still get one from level 10 but not from level 8. --Felbryn 16:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not asking about reward quality, just whether or not I get a chest. Like if my personal reward is less than 8 and I join a group doing level 8, am I supposed to get it? In general it sounds like I should. That being the case, I will further ask, if my personal reward level is 1 (meaning I just started and have not yet unlocked the first level where the Solid Ocean exists but am still able to play on it because of group), am I still supposed to get the chest? I know I did Solid Ocean on my first fractal run but didn't get a daily chest until my second run. 76.253.0.17 22:59, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I have consistently gotten daily chests when completing an even difficulty level that was above my personal level, even when my personal level was odd (I believe I've done this at every odd level from 5 through 13). I've never tried at a personal level of 1, though. I could imagine the game might be using some sort of "take the daily chest from the highest even level lower than your personal level" algorithm and therefore fails for level 1 (and if so, that might be a bug). --Felbryn 02:50, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

To answer your question: Yes, you still need to do be at least reward level 2 to get any daily chest. If it is your first run with a new character it doesnt matter which even level you do, you wont get a daily chest. If your reward level is 1 (have seen this personally twice and heard about it often so it definitly is not a bug.)

Oh and Felbryn: The thing you deleted in the article was actually right. The daily reward chest changes for 26 and 28. When you do 20/22/24 the rings you get can be infused or normal. At 26+ they are always infused. If you need proof for that: Im running 26+ dailies each day since weeks. Noone in my group got a non infused ring the whole time (except their reward level was not 26, which was in the beginning and further proves this.) Magistrella 22:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Daily Reward

Got an infused ring on fractal lvl 28, but my personal reward scale was 20. I think rings, inf or non-inf as well as skins can drop from 20+. Qiff 09:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The table on the page has gone through several confusing iterations, but I think what it was attempting to say was that you can find either infused or non-infused rings in levels 20-25, then at level 26 and higher you can find infused rings but can no longer find non-infused rings. --Felbryn 18:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Felbryn is correct. Also it is assumed that since you were 20 you were actually receiving the 28 reward chest because you fit in the Tier (20-29). Fresh Berry Smoothie 02:28, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I also think the changes to this table have been annoying. AFAIK, it was correct prior to this edit So I'll be changing it back -- Let me know if I was wrong though! Fresh Berry Smoothie 02:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Freshberrysmoothie, your first answer is contradictory. Stating both Felbryn is correct and saying you get 28 rewards though only being 20 because you fit the tier can't be true together.

I felt free to edit the table again, because of the IP comment in the article itself and because I think Felbryn is correct and the article was correct a few edits ago, like he said. --aRTy 14:51, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Well Arty, that's cool. My table change said the same thing though, no? Except more concretely I was hoping. What exactly is this table saying the way it is laid out now? And for the record, I was acting under the assumption that if I'm on Level 11, and we did a Fractal Level 16, that I would be receiving the level 16 bonus chest. Which, I do receive on level 11, though being odd. So I figured it was not the level 10 chest that I got, but the 16. Therefore, wouldn't my comment be correct that you can be Level 20 and receive level 28 rewards? So that means Yes, Qiff could've got the 28 infused ring? IF, I'm correct on my earlier assumption though. That remains to be clarified. Also, as Felbryn tried to clarify, it is only possible to receive infused Rings 26+. So I'm not sure how I was acting contradictory, as I was merely trying to make both parties correct. It's not an impossible situation as far as I have assumed. Is it not the case that one on personal reward 20-25 but on Fractal 26-29 will receive the 26-29 bonus chest? I suppose that's the question... But I'm going to revert to the table with the two groups of levels distinguished in Tier 2, as they DEFINITELY act differently from each other. Sorry Fresh Berry Smoothie 19:04, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Also to reclarify on why I think the two lines in the table are more correct, isn't becuase of the information inside them, but becuase the two levels ACT differently. There shouldn't be any question what rewards we receive by now. Though I'm not knowledgeable on WHAT exactly they are, but from all the edits it's been through, it seems that 26+ you can only get infused. I also left the superscript note there to clarify for individuals, once confirmed whether one receives the 26+ chest while doing a Fractal that high while being in the same Tier, or not. I put a question mark, because I do not know myself. I hope that explains what I meant all along! Fresh Berry Smoothie 19:13, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I once joined a fractal level 10 group when my personal reward level was 9. I did not receive the fractal level 10 chest (there was no pristine fractal relic). Then I did fractal level 10 again in the same day (now with a higher personal reward level) and got another chest (this time with a pristine fractal relic).

So, no, you don't get the daily chest of the higher level, you get the lower of the fractal level or your personal reward level. Exactly like ArenaNet told us in the patch notes. You have presented no evidence to the contrary. And your example about getting the level 16 chest instead of the level 10 chest is meaningless, because the level 10 and level 16 chests are identical.

And no, the table that was there before Arty's edit did not say the same thing; it didn't list infused rings as a possibility for levels 20-25. He both added correct information and removed incorrect information. I am removing your footnote again. --Felbryn 20:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

If you are 9, you are not in the same tier as fractals 10-19. I never said you would've received that chest, nor does the footnote/table. My evidence is as follows: When you do a level 11, 13, or 15 personal level fractal and 16 or 18 level actual fractal, you receive a daily bonus chest. I'm not sure WHAT people are confused about. The table BEFORE arty's edit had two separate lines for tier 2 fractals. NOW it doesn't. The footnote you CAN complain about. Information that is NOT obvious, is NOT correct. No argument. The way it was written prior to having two lines was confusing enough that people edited it often. And I'm SORRY I missed the possibility for infused rings in 20-25. Why didn't someone ADD it, as I asked them to? Instead of reverting to an obviously CONFUSING table set up? Hope the capital letters help. Also still waiting on that footnote information as it IS important to know for tier 2 fractals. Do come back and add that information. Fresh Berry Smoothie 21:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I never merged the two tier 2 lines and they are still in the article. Concerning your CAPS (which I feel is not needed) question:

"And I'm SORRY I missed the possibility for infused rings in 20-25. Why didn't someone ADD it, as I asked them to? Instead of reverting to an obviously CONFUSING table set up?"

That's what I did. I did not revert the table into the 1-line for tier 2 state, I removed the IP comment and added infused rings to 20-25. I also removed the footnote, since the chance for infused rings on 20 seemed to explain the comments here and I did not see any more hints for the rather weird-seeming "you get the higher reward when you reached the right tier"-effect. I still don't believe this effect exists, but I'll keep an eye on it ingame from now on. --aRTy 21:37, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Well I am sorry, Arty. I am still new to these wiki edits. At the time, for some reason, I thought you had reverted it to the one line version (Which, in my defense, I had mentioned multiple times -- My mistake). Which made no sense to me at all. I hope that explains why I used CAPS. Aka -- BIG misunderstanding. Felbryn could've just said that too I suppose. Instead of leaving me confused wondering how the 1 line table is "He both added correct information and removed incorrect information." xP but I get it now. That's why I used caps, due to the hostile "no" attitude which I could not comprehend based on my incorrect beliefs. Hope that helps clear the confusion! Fresh Berry Smoothie 21:51, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

You're changing your story. You said you theorized that you get the chest for the fractal level you're playing at because there's no daily chest on odd levels. I just gave an example of where I played at an odd reward level and got a daily chest that was obviously not the one for the fractal level I was playing. Which isn't surprising, since ArenaNet specifically told us that you're rewarded at the lower of the fractal level or your personal level, and your claim that odd levels would need any sort of special rule was only conjecture anyway (there's no reason they can't have daily rewards defined in exactly the same way as the even levels, and you just don't normally get them because there's no jade maw). In any case, you clearly can't use that as a reason.

So based on the evidence presented so far, we have precisely ZERO reason to think that you could ever get a chest from a level higher than your personal level OR to think that there is anything unusual going on at levels 20-29. All we have is your wild theory that you get the higher-level chest except of course in every case where it would noticeably matter. As far as I can tell, you have plucked this theory whole out of rarefied air.

So put up or shut up. --Felbryn 22:35, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

You're an asshole. There are way better ways of saying whatever it is you're trying to say. Straight up, you're just a rude fucking asshole. Fresh Berry Smoothie 23:13, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Whatever you guys were arguing about, i don't care. The table is correct now. Qiff 15:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Distinguishing between Scale and Level

Probably will help alleviate confusion. Scale refers to the Fractal Difficulty Scale (the fractal you're playing on), but was previously mentioned as "fractal level". In contrast the Personal Reward Level helps determine the max Fractal Difficulty Scale you can complete, whether you qualify for scale progression/karma awards etc. We used to call them Fractal Levels prior to them incorporating personal reward levels. Now that they exist a clear distinction between the two will be helpful to new players. Fresh Berry Smoothie 21:22, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

That seems to be consistent with the in-game UI, so OK, I'll go with that. --Felbryn 22:15, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand "Personal Reward Level", is this an in-game term?--Relyk ~ talk > 22:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is; it appears in the upper-right corner of the screen while you are in the fractals, and I think it also appears in the dialog box when entering the dungeon. --Felbryn 22:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I know "fractal level" and "level" in context of FotM as referring to the value of the difficulty scale. Saying "fractal scale" doesn't make sense because the difficulty scale is a game mechanic rather than a value. Your current fractal level would be the highest fractal level available on the difficulty scale and your personal reward level or "reward level" implicitly corresponds to this value. The personal reward level plays into the amount of karma you receive while current fractal level plays into your personal reward level and the highest fractal you can access based on any one member. I don't think when you say "fractal level", you want to refer to the personal reward level.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Can you find anywhere in the in-game UI where they use "fractal level" to refer to the difficulty level of the fractal you're currently playing? I'm only working from screenshots at the moment, but all the ones I've looked at so far say "scale". --Felbryn 00:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

No, that's how I use it when I play with others. Do people use "scale" to refer to fractal level?--Relyk ~ talk > 00:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Most people I've seen don't call it anything at all, they just say things like "fotm 10" and the fact that the "10" refers to difficulty is implicit from context. But even if it's common for people to call it "level", I'd be reluctant to use an unofficial term on the wiki when an official and unambiguous one is available. (Which isn't to say that I'm going to start referring to personal reward level just as "fractal level"; that would be unnecessarily confusing...but we don't actually have to say "fractal level" at all if there are better terms we can use.) --Felbryn 00:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I noticed that, level isn't used explicitly too often. I'm fine with using scale x and reward level for the prose of the article.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:56, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Mechanics#Difficulty Scale

Quote is "There is an especially big jump at scales that are multiples of 10. Some players refer to the tens digit of the difficulty scale as the "tier" (thus, scales 1-9 are tier 0, 10-19 are tier 1, etc.)." However, in my opinion and in some of my friends this is not necesarily true. Though agony is much stronger tier to tier, some fractals "jump" in difficulty as well. According to some the jump in 26 and 28 is quite noticeable. The tier also does help determine the number of fractal relics received for completing the dungeon, so we could try to incorporate that as well Fresh Berry Smoothie 23:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Not sure where the mail would fit on the main page

But here it is upon hitting 80: Fresh Berry Smoothie 15:31, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The Consortium PR and Legal Defense Team A Dazzling New Attraction in Lion's Arch The Consortium invites you to visit our asura gate near Fort Marriner to experience the spectacular scenery and awe-inspiring adventure of its newest attraction: Fractals of the Mists! Re-live the greatest and most exciting moments from Tyria's past as you test your strength, speed, and skill against some of the most formidable opponents from the annals of history. All this and more is waiting for you in the Fractals of the Mists! (WARNING: some fractals may cause injury, psychic trauma, blindness, or death. By entering this asura gate, you officially waive any and all rights to pursue legal damages against the Consortium. Participate at your own risk.) —The Consortium PR and Legal Defense Team

Why aren't these introduction letters on the page of each dungeon? :3 IceBlink (talk) 19:31, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Karma stuff

After a 48 daily I (fotm lvl 80) got 12186 karma (With 4% boost from achievements and 15% from guild) = 10240 83.80.181.220 12:29, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

A quick read above says this is about right - but shouldn't it scale down if you have a lower personal reward level? 83.80.181.220 12:36, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Necroing this since the new formula has apparently had some rng added to it. 2xPRL 80 and 1x PRL 71 got 11069, 10959 and 11162 respectively. 83.80.181.220 20:53, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Nope, you just deleted the correct formula. having done a lot of lvl10 fractals with lvl16 rewards and receiving 4666 every time, you need to take into account personal karma boosts from the achievements! I'll leave the formula wrong for the moment, you do the maths (or give me the relevant fractal levels and personal % and i'll do it).

with the correct formula you get

(640 + 8*10) *6 = 4320
4320 * 0.08  = 345.6
4320 + 345.6 = 4665.5 round up to get 4666 Karma

Maybe a note needs to be added that any karma boosts including the personal boost count towards awarded karma Joironfist (talk) 13:44, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Your Formula seems right as compared to the formula on the page: (640 + 8*fractallvl)*(Rewarddifferencelvl) because I got about 960 Karma doing Fractal 30 with 31 as personal lvl and a teammate with 33 got 2878 (9% Karmaboost both). I will do another run to test this and change the formula if it should fit in. Linus (talk) 20:06, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Ascended Ring Earlier than the Noted Level on Page

I've gotten Ascended rings at level 22 for sure from daily chest. I have screenshots of some as well somewhere. Need more discussion on the level you've all gotten the rings.

Last night got one on a 22, my personal reward level 25.

How is this earlier than what's noted on the page? --Musha 05:15, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Rewards Changed

Despite doing level 38 and my fract lvl was 33 i received a not infused ring; the new patch must have changed the reward system. 79.12.200.85 16:08, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I got infused ring on some of the 30-34 levels and not infused on 34; must be that rewards are randomly infused or not infused rings. MalGalad 16:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I also received a non-infused ring on 41+ with my personal level also 41+, to my disappointment Konvay the Conveyer (talk) 19:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I took the liberty of changing the table, because Anet has still not confirmed this to be a bug. 84.193.88.198 03:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Please explain leveling in the article

I've played through fifteen fractals, but I'm still at level 1. I kept exiting during the third or fourth fractal in a row because my armor was in bad shape and I thought it just kept infinitely putting me in fractal after fractal. I understand now that if I'd actually finished the fourth fractal in a row, then it would have put me back in the lobby and raised my fractal level - right? Would someone please explain this better in the article? - Brian Kendig (talk) 17:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

"After all fractals in a difficulty scale are stabilized, the party will be returned to the Mistlock Observatory and the difficulty scale will increase by one." - not clear enough? MalGalad 18:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Nope. What does "all fractals in a difficulty scale" mean - do the different fractals have different difficulties? And does "difficulty scale" in your second sentence mean my own level in the fractals? - Brian Kendig (talk) 18:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Fratcals Weapons at Level 12

Just received fractal Staff from level 12 but wiwki says you get weapon skins after level 20 Ace Loves It (talk) 22:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

BUG - 50 daily, no reward chest

im done 50 scale lvl fotm, and all party not give reward for daily. search in google this post on offforum https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Fractals-50-no-Daily-Chest/first#post3521963 --Yutaka_Matsushige (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Out of date

Is it still necessary? I browsed through the content and it all appears to be up to date. --Ventriloquist (talk) 00:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

If it looks up to date then it's safe to remove the tag. Folks tend to forget about tag removals - especially stub ones but any kind really. Konig 00:10, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll quadruple-check it in the morning and if it's okay and up to date, I'll remove it. --Ventriloquist (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Experience

Do Fractals reward experience upon completion like normal dungeons do? -The Returned Hero

Scarlet slaying potion

They should work on all Scarlet's minions. Could someone test it out?