Talk:Dynamic level adjustment

Ben Miller

Who's Ben Miller? :/ -- Armond Warblade 23:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[1] poke | talk 23:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Great. Can we mention that near the links or something so it doesn't look like some random person we're linking to, or is that a bad idea? -- Armond Warblade 23:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's needed, the interview explains who he is. Lord Belar 23:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

this sounds bad =/ idk how this will be implemented but meh, sounds bad for sure, and has no sense - Wuhy 02:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

well, reading some more interviews :O revealed that they wont make pve level-grind based and rather introduce fun quests than boring "XYZ" quests, u can play with ur friends using this and u can try everything, so i take that^ back - Wuhy 07:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it's an interesting concept! I hope they can be made unique to the player via physical customization (but I doubt it). EDIT: I was definitely thinking of the companion system.-- Shew talk 07:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

So a low lvl character will be able to play in high lvl areas? if you'll be able to play in all high lvl areas with this "sidekick", i don't think it's a good idea. Plohek 10:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd assume you still have to get there first, even then, it makes no difference if you're levelled up if you can' actually play at that level, you'll just die quick. it's also possiable they'll put some kind of limit on the sidekick system (so you can't be X levels above your current level or something). = 84.43.109.60 10:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

this will be implemented to avoid level grinding while still allowing character progression. - Wuhy 11:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

(First week) WTB High level Sidekick 10k Greep 05:34, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

merge

I disagree with the merge. In the terminology they've been using in their interviews; A companion is an AI hero, a pet, a henchman who isn't part of the party but is part of the character. A side kick is a player which gets extra levels from being 'mentored' by another player and I presume is a member of the party. Is there information which links the two somewhere? --Aspectacle 03:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

i disagree too, they have no relations, i R removing the tag - Wuhy 08:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

great.

so im gona have 5 lvl 1 dudes sidekicking a lazy high level nub to kill me? Happy days!--user:neil2250

You remain the ability to play with friends with lower lvl's, help them and be a teecher to everyone. Why would a sidekick kill you? It is a comrade in arms. --Silverleaf Don't assume, Know! 17:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I think he is talking about in world PvP. Just playing the game, I'm pretty sure people aren't going to be able to gank you. And in world PvP, hopefully you won't let yourself get caught like that ;) Mat Cauthorn, The Botanist 20:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Sidekicks gone?

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494264 --Cyberman 16:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Companions are different than the sidekick system. -~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) 16:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

"Being sidekicked down in level is not voluntary like being sidekicked up in level"

I didn't notice this before, that's excellent. --ஸ Kyoshi 13:47, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Going down

I would much rather they increase the strength of the creatures (Hard Mode) instead of lowering our levels. At least with hard mode we could get good drops. Eive 23:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Trouble with hard mode is it requires instances of your supposedly persistent world or your scaled monsters end up squishing all your level 2 friends. Plenty of potential for lulz but I'd rather not see it. :) Hard mode could work for dungeons, but I think they've decided to monetize cool skins through using transmutation stones so they're unlikely to use a different mechanic for scaling those than the open world. -- Aspectacle  23:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Potential problem

Won't newbie areas get dead pretty quick with sidekicking? Personally, having beaten the game I doubt I would want to repeat the early areas with a new character. I'd hate to see the newbie areas turning into what prophecies looks like now. Greep 18:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Even after 6 years of Guild Wars, Prophecies is still rather active for a campaign that features almost nothing interesting to the general player. I doubt that starter areas will die down. Especially with the level scaling and the fact that they neighbour 5 of the big cities. - Infinite - talk 18:47, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah I forgot it's persistent so there won't be any Ascalaon with 2 districts but adjacent mission area with 1 person Greep 05:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

We could also guess that there will be many Dynamic Events that a player has not tried yet, or partly not. Even those that he has, might change over time in difficulty or size. Even new ones might be added over time in lower level areas. Perhaps even lower level areas with a whole new story. Ge4ce-Talk-Contribs 05:53, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Hoping to make a contribution

Hey - I am certainly happy to discover this. cool job! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 46.17.96.43 (talk).

Please sign your comments with -- Necro Shea Mo ~ (remove the space between the last two squiggles [I dunno what you call them])!-- Necro Shea Mo 03:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

lol... i think you mean ~ ~ ~ ~ without spaces... xD 3 tildes is your signature without timestamp, 5 is timestamp only... ~~ Kiomadoushi 05:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

There was no need to remove the conversation. (if I reverted something else while putting this convesation back, please tell me.)-- Necro Shea Mo 05:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The reason why it was removed was due to the IP being a bot (check its contributions). A pointless bot, at that. - Infinite - talk 14:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh, apologizes.-- Necro Shea Mo 21:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Sidekick reward system

Does anyone know if being a sidekick changes absolute or relative rewards like experience and coin? If high level content grants more xp and coin per kill/quest, do these rewards scale down for a low-level sidekick? And will scaled down sidekicks still be rewarded for their efforts with xp and/or coin even though they fight significantly under their level? I think this information would be a valuable addition to the main sidekick wiki page.--Tisko 10:33, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Due to the lack of sidekicking in effect, there is no definite answer to any of these questions. I don't think there was sidekicking in the demos either way. If there was, it is highly unlikely that it was recorded. - Infinite - talk 17:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Sidekicking Up - Wrong

In PvE, a character wanting to play higher level content will be automatically scaled to the level of the area (s)he is in. This will also be the case in World PvP, any character will be sidekicked automatically to level 80 to fight against other worlds.[2] The WvWvW part i highly doubt, as it was stated you will fight at your own level and with your own gear in the past, that might have changed though, but the interviews (sources) were not realy explicit about it --Arghore 18:41, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

When a character is sidekicked up they do not receive any new abilities, but are scaled up in power to be more equal to other players and to access the higher-level content. However, a character scaled from a lower level is weaker than one with a higher level even after being sidekicked. For example, level 1 sidekicked up to level 80 is worse than level 20 sidekicked up to level 80, which is worse than level 40 sidekicked up to level 80.[2]

Going Down levels: Correct info.

Going UP levels in Structured PvP: Addition, i would add that: for structured PvP formats level is of no importance as all players will be scaled up to an equal lvl80 and have all skills and abilities available.

--Arghore 18:41, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I've just come looking for some more clarification on this point. I believe this YouTube video from PAX might clear the point up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP3yDL-b2fY). I'm pretty sure Colin wasn't talking about PvP in this talk. Can anyone remember otherwise? BrentNewbury 20:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Outdated

Sidekicking up in PvE isn't happening anymore, see Tasha's EU Fan Day Q&A transcript, last question of part one. --zeeZ (talk) 15:33, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Cheers ZeeZ, looks like I had updated the page a few hours after you made this comment. But it seems the page has been edited since. BrentNewbury 22:43, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Move to Dynamic level adjustment

Any objections to the move? DLA is the official term. --Eerie Moss 13:17, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

ANet has also used sidekick(ing) on several occasions, I believe. If I'm correct, I'd suggest redirecting DLA to sidekick (since most people are more familiar with sidekicking) and change the intro to say "sidekicking, or dynamic level adjustment, is...". -- Armond Warblade 15:27, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

The Sidekicking term is outdated. Sidekicking refers to leveling up to someone else in your group. This feature isn't in the game anymore. I think earlier they used sidekicking for levelup and downranking for level down. Anyhow DLA is the best fit for it now and sidekicking only useful for searches. So redirecting sidekicking to the DLA site is the way to go. Beetlejuice 15:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

How does scaling work?

I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea about how exactly the scaling works. I almost always find myself completely over-scaled in terms of strength. Doing things like AC as a lvl 66 with lvl 60 gear, I have roughly 20% to all stats and am significantly less effective than an actual level 30. I would put my effective strength at around what it was back when I was a level 25. I also remember when I was playing in areas where I was the proper level, I would level and suddenly be subject to level adjustment (for 1 level), and suddenly I would have 10% less crit, reduced attack, defense, health, etc. While it's not too noticeable for general pve, dungeons are designed to be difficult enough that the differences in being scaled down vs. being at the proper level results in significantly less useful characters (I find myself dieing about twice as fast as light armor classes of the proper level; although I'm not running a tank build). 76.103.247.26 07:15, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

It definitely needs more research. I haven't really noticed my stats being too low in dungeons, but in general PvE, a level 80 is a lot more effective than level 5s in a level 5 area, more than trait effects and utility skills account for. It's not as simple as the article makes it seem. Manifold 00:56, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Scaling is limited to your base attribute scores only. All equipment and trait bonuses apply in full. A level 80 character, who would normally have 916 base in each attribute, traveling in a level 4 area will be scaled to a base score of 36. If that character has equipment/trait bonuses of +500 to an attribute, then they'll have a final score of 536 in that attribute. —Dr Ishmael 02:17, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Source/proof for this? Because my 80 warr downranked to 8 has a total Armor of 190 - less than his chest piece provides. Overall my equipment seems to be at ~20% efficiency. Reashu 15:33, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I would also assume that if you get downscaled to 40, your base stats and gear stats are both reduced by 50%. It just seems logical. --92.73.182.12 02:44, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Pretty comprehensive explanation of downscaling, including the top comment. Manifold 04:26, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Did a couple of tests. It looks like scaling is based along 3 curves: the basic stat progression curve for power, precision, toughness, vitality, condition damage and healing power. It applies to total stats, gained from equipment and traits. I'm guessing that defense and weapon damage scale by their own characteristic curves (which are less well defined than the stat progression curves—I need to do that at some point), and looks like stuff such as crit damage and boon/condition duration don't scale with levels at all. I have no idea how base health scales per profession. ~ Capric 05:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Note: That's scaling down. Scaling up has some sort of crazy bonus stat function that gives lower level characters extra stats when they are 80, presumably to make up for the equipment/trait/etc slots they don't have yet. The same basic principle applies, but the bonus stats make the end result quite different, especially at very low levels. ~ Capric 05:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

stat difference (per level?)

here is some chart data for a lv 25 in different areas, sorry its anto a literal chart... idk how to do that. she using full blue grade pillaging equipment (2 weap, all armor, all acc), 10 points into death magic, and 5 into blood.

• lv 25 stats; 323 str, 164 prec, 246 tough, 214 vit
• lv 25 to 24; 342 str, 156 prec, 251 tough, 204 vit
• lv 25 to 23; 325 str, 148 prec, 238 tough, 193 vit
• lv 25 to 22; 310 str, 140 prec, 225 tough, 183 vit
• lv 25 to 21; 294 str, 132 prec, 212 tough, 172 vit
• lv 25 to 20; 275 str, 124 prec, 200 tough, 162 vit
• lv 25 to 15; 206 str, 092 prec, 148 tough, 120 vit
• lv 25 to 11; 155 str, 068 prec, 109 tough, 089 vit
• lv 25 to 08; 123 str, 052 prec, 084 tough, 068 vit
• lv 25 to 05; 094 str, 040 prec, 065 tough, 052 vit

not sure what happened with the str at two levels within my tested range... 192.168.104.82 20:07, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Actual level

Is it possible to find out someone's acutal level in a low level area? For example, a level 80 ranger enters a level 10 area. His effect level is 11 with a green arrow and that's what other players see. 50.46.253.69 01:28, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Why?

This feature just seems like a bad thing for players. You spend countless hours to build up your character then you have to play as a noob char in lower areas. If you try to help other chars, especially if they are new, then you really get penalized. You have to spend money to travel to wps, you have to spend money to fix broken armor when you die...it's just a bad thing. Maybe make the drops or something else, but don't penalize players. 69.47.136.214 18:35, 22 September 2013 (UTC)Thugem Chi

You don't get penalized, you still get the same amount of experience for killing enemies in the area as you would in an area suitable for your character level. You can also help low level players without trivializing the combat. It also means the game can have horizontal progression instead of vertical progression where players have constantly level up and obtain new gear to play through content. You effectively make the entire game endgame content instead of restricting it to content at the level cap.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Excellent answer, Relyk :-) I'd like to add that a lvl 80 player with full exotic gear is still very very strong when down levelled --Combatter (talk) 23:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Simply Unfair

The benefits of this are: High level characters are prevented from killing enemies too easily and depriving low level characters of rewards. Lower level content doesn't become obsolete, and remains adequately challenging, even after a character has out-leveled an area.

A scaled down character continues to receive experience and loot that is comparable to what they would receive at their real level, though it is still somewhat less efficient for obtaining experience and items than playing level-appropriate content.

I must admit I simply Loathe this system, it was a huge part of why I stopped playing 2 years ago, and remains the thing I hate most in the game. As player is in a Dungeon, a Fractal, and often in open world we are confronted with Veteran, Elite, and Champion Mobs that are 10x or more their purported level. I would not mind nearly so much if these mobs where presented as they are, but then the devs could not claim that it was fair to nerf a player to Level 30 while pitting them against a level 300 Mob; no a Level 30 Champion is so much more fair; and of course we are much to stupid not to know Champion means, any level the Devs $(#S well Please.

I really hope at some point this Ludicrous and dishonest system is removed at least from the Dungeons and other Endgame modes.

Does Legendary equipment downscale less than Ascended ones?

And what about the runes & sigils placed in them? --138.75.82.239 15:04, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Updating File:Dynamic_level_adjustment.jpg

Downscale is now shown in pale red, and upscale is shown in green, and unmodified is white. I've got a screenshot with all three colours. Shall I update the file with just the colour update, or shall I include the tooltip showing actual stat? --BryghtShadow (talk) 11:16, 30 April 2019 (UTC)