Talk:Daily/Research

Categories

The current category list is: Activity, Combat / Progression, Economy, Events, Gathering, Group Content, Kills, Localized Kills, WvW. I find this an odd way to view the game. I'd rather see it divided by how people play rather than how we at the wiki create categories:

• Personal are achievements that are best done alone or can only be done alone, e.g. Laurel Vendor, Crafting, Gathering.
• Training or Mechanics include those that seem to be about getting people to learn specific tools, e.g. interrupt, dodge.
• Party are those that most people will do in a party of five, e.g. Fractal or dungeons.
• Region-specific must be completed in a specific region, e.g. Ascalon events or maguman kills.
• PvE are those activities that don't fall easily to any of the above: events, variety, total kills, aquatic.
• WvW is fine as is.

This reduces the total from nine to six categories and should make it easier for many to organize for efficient completion. 75.36.181.195 02:23, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Are you talking about the categorization in the list of possible achievements, or the “apparent achievement types” at the bottom of the table? In any way, so far that is all observation based on what we have seen so far. We don’t know how many more achievements they will unveil so it could all still go crazy against our current observation.

As for the list of possible achievements, I did that categorization basically to have something to group the achievements into. With 41 achievements as of now, and at least 7 more region specific achievements (not counting Orr yet), it would quickly get out of hand. That categorization has no further impact though.

Regarding the “apparent achievement types”, that’s not mine, so I can’t comment on the details. I think it’s already clear that some of those types do not fit (e.g. the kills in spot 1 are sometimes region specific too, while the ones in spot 2 sometimes aren’t; the personal story in spot 4 does not fit “events”). But we’ll see how it goes in the future as we discover more of the cycle. poke | talk 12:51, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

How to?

I know how to update the table on main page. However, I don't know how to change this table, or if it is done automatically. Since I almost always get into the game within minutes of midnight UTC, I think I need to learn how the two pages work together.

Can someone please let me know? Thanks! Daddicus 02:09, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

As of now this page is completely separate and requires manual work. You basically just edit the table and add a row for the new dailies in the order they appear in the hero panel. poke | talk 14:33, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I've added a lazy option, whereby the user copies the template from the Daily page, edits the template title from {{Daily}} to {{Daily/research}}, adds the date and presses save ;) -Chieftain Alex 14:52, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

2-week prediction

I've cobbled together a template that will show the achievements for the next 14 days. Not sure if it should go on the main Daily page, though. I'll make one tomorrow using the same date math to call {{daily}} with the correct achievements for the current day. —Dr Ishmael 04:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

That's what poke is going for. I'd rather display only the current daily on the main page, but either way works.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:44, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think a full matrix would work very well - there are too many different achievements (47) over too many days (14), it would be a very sparse matrix. Highlighting today's achievements out of a complete listing would be similarly sparse. I think just automating today's table is enough for now. —Dr Ishmael 19:03, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Living World order

Would anyone be upset if I reversed it so the most recent (origins of madness) were at the top, instead of the bottom? Scrolling is annoying. Vili 点 22:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

pvp and pve specific

As far as I know, all the "pve" dailies like Daily Reviver and Condition Remover work in PvP as well, so it's kind of misleading to put them under the "PvE" part of the table. Obviously ones like Personal Story or <region> Killer aren't possible in any way. Vili 点 01:29, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Change "PvE" to "General" and Bob's your uncle? —Dr Ishmael 12:17, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Standard Dailies

I summarized my edit highlighting the four dailies that are repeated every day with, "making it easier to see the four choices always available — 3 of 3 people I know visiting this page didn't see it — also you can get *some* traditional PvE dailies in PvP)". In response, the following discussion was begun on my talk page:

→ moved from User talk:Tennessee Ernie Ford#Daily/Research

(Reset indent) Make that 4 out of 4. The problem I have with it is that the "always on" dailies look like a sub header and my eyes automatically ignore those. Maybe those ones should be presented separate from the table? — snograt 01:36, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

It looks like a subheader because it is. Or should I say was - I removed that formatting, so now it's just a standard row with cell borders. That should help it stand out without looking like part of the column headers. —Dr Ishmael 03:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Recycler should really just be on its own. It's not "PvE", since reward tracks and rank up chests hand out stuff for you to salvage. There are merchants in the Heart of the Mists that sell salvage kits, too. Vili 点 08:15, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

That is a better place to have this discussion, true. —Dr Ishmael 12:16, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I don't care how it's formatted, as long as the standard four dailies stand out, which they still do not do (at least at the time I wrote this). I'm going to make one more attempt to highlight it. Feel free to revert or tweak it some more but I hope keep in mind the goal. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:58, 1 May 2014 (UTC) (edit: I've deliberately made a horribly ugly tweak, the better to make the point that the goal is to make the four always-avail options obvious — they should stand out compared to the changing dailies. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:04, 1 May 2014 (UTC))

This page was never meant to be the page for reading the dailies, in any case, so the formatting of this table doesn't really matter. You should be pointing people to Daily#Achievements directly instead of to a subpage.

Also, you didn't address Vili's concern. I propose a new format for the main-page Daily list:

05 Nov 2024
Daily Events
Recycler
<rotation 1>
<rotation 2>
<rotation 3>
<rotation 4>
[WvW] Daily Mists Invasion Defender
[WvW] <wvw rotation 1>
[PvP] Daily Matches Played
[PvP] <pvp rotation 1>

That way there's nothing saying that the non-WvW/non-PvP achievements are specifically PvE, but the WvW/PvP achievements are clearly shown as such. The current automation can't be adapted to this, unfortunately, so we'd have to devise something different. —Dr Ishmael 19:28, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

My point still stands:as the non-header aligns perfectly with the data below it, it still looks like column headings. The only way to change that is to have the constants separate from the table. As the good doctor says, the point is moot, though - a fact that I didn't even consider when ~I first commented. Yeah, yeah, ok - in the wrong place. Consider me chastised. — snograt 20:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent on the matter of column headings, but maybe we could use to denote the PvP-specific ones, like how it's done in-game? The WvW-specific dailies use the regular PvE achievement icon, sadly. Edit: I think the layout of the new proposed table makes it more clear, so I'd approve. Vili 点 22:29, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I had the same thought, but for want of a WvW-specific icon I just used text for both. —Dr Ishmael 22:40, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

 ? Vili 点 22:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

As the original and primary author of this page, I want to highlight something Ish said: “This page was never meant to be the page for reading the dailies”. That’s how it is. This is meant as a purely documental document, to document the full history of the dailies and perform research on new cycles as they appear in the game. As such, the primary benefit of any format used on the page is to (a) make it easy to edit, and (b) make it concise. Other attempts at making it easier “readable” (in a very subjective matter) and appealing to the main audience of the common articles, that hinder either of the two points are not really helpful.

If you want to show the average user something nice that they are able to understand easily, then do that directly on Daily. When the update was released, I took the initiative to add some inclusion logic there so that we would at least have some way to show the current dailies while we figure out a cycle. As I didn’t want to maintain two articles, Daily had to suffer from the formatting I chose to do on this article. However, by now, we have enough information about the new cycle to fix the {{Daily}} template and use that on the main article again to show proper information in a easily comprehensible way. The only thing we don’t know right now is the last PvE slot, which won’t take that much longer to figure out though.

That being said, I reverted the formatting again to the original format that fulfills both (a) and (b) and highlights the actual parts of the cycle.

Meanwhile, I want to point out that while you were all discussing this, nobody took the effort to even update it for May 1st, making Daily outdated too… poke | talk 23:32, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't bother editing anything that involves using templates because they scare me. But if these sorts of usability discussions are frivolous then I suppose there's nothing left for me to edit in mainspace articles. Vili 点 23:52, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid y'all missed my point, so I apologize for making it poorly. The idea is that people are using this page, whether or not anyone intended that. And those who do were (and I suspect will continue to be) confused.

I never "sent" anyone to this page. A few people I know came here on their own, trying to figure out if there was some pattern to future dailies by looking at past ones. They thought both the Daily and Daily/Research articles weren't being maintained and gave up. Independently, for different reasons, I went to both articles and thought: wiki is missing 4 dailies per day and apparently the /research page isn't being fully updated. Later, when I was speaking to the other players, we discovered the shared reaction.

I "fixed" the table in this article because that seemed like the easiest way to make it easy on players, without having to learn the code that is being used. I don't really care that this page "was never intended" to be anything more than a data page, because, intent doesn't matter. It's a public wiki page, which means it's going to get used however the public uses it, something that, alas, we don't get to decide.

But of course it wouldn't matter how this article is formatted, if the Daily article has the additional information that people went looking for, notably: what will future dailies look like? There's an easy-to-read table that shows today's dailies, but makes no prediction about tomorrow's. The "possible" dailies contains all sorts of things completely removed from the rotation, including things from old Living Story Chapters. In other words, if people wanted to their own analysis using wiki data, they will still be reading this article and therefore, usability still matters. In my opinion, anyhow. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:45, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

[[Daily/Table]]. poke | talk 12:24, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Some good points TEF; I've made some minor updates to the Daily page to remove events that will probably not see the light of day again. Cleaned up the formatting of the Daily/Table subpage to make it more human readable >.> -Chieftain Alex 13:13, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Extra Dailies

I wanted to drop this section into the talk for this page, as it hasn't been hashed on since the extra dailies were added earlier in the year. In the exmaple of the table above, a rotation 5 & 6 could be added for PvE. As it stands right now, there's only 6 allowances for PvE dailies (2 constant and 4 variable) when there's actually 6 daily PvE variables. So, in essence, taking the above idea, PvE could be renamed "General" and two extra columns could be added. I would go and edit the table myself but I'm not great with the editing required, so I was wondering if someone slightly more code-adept could drop in another two extra PvE columns to the daily, thanks. PS: Actually it would be great if this page could be placed somewhere a little more prominent like it was in GW1. 120.29.43.37 03:49, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

I really don’t know what you are talking about? In the current rotation we have 12 dailies in total, of which 8 are “general” dailies—although the Feature Pack did break that pattern for some days (giving us a third WvW daily for example). Furthermore, this page primarily serves as a way to document all the past daily rotations and to figure out the new rotation. For a public list of dailies, you should either check Daily or [[Daily/Table]]. poke | talk 17:13, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Future of this page

The last change with the Daily system was very massive, changing its system completely. As a result, my plan with page is to transform it into a historical documentation of how the system worked before that last change. I’m currently trying out ways to make this more appealing for common readers. And I also need to consider adding the actual achievement details too (since some of those are still documented on the wiki, but many are lost in some page histories).

As for the new system, I have been logging the “cycle” since December 14th (2 days before introduction). Cycle in quotes since there has been zero evidence so far for a repeating pattern. And my fear is that we will get new dailies soon (with HoT) that will break any data we have found. I’ll publish my data soon on a new research page; since there will be so many data and the cycle is likely very large—so far we have 36 days and still haven’t seen many of the available achievements, not even once—the page will end up being very large too, so I want to have it separated.

So, what I want to say with this is that you don’t need to bother adding the dailies each day for now. Of course I already have been eagerly working on my pet project since the change ;) poke | talk 07:13, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, poke. User:Gameboyguy13 and I weren't able to find anybody logging the new dailies so we figured we should start our own. Any chance you have it somewhere that we can take a look? Veron (talk) 21:17, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Looked around and didn't see anything before updating with my own findings. Typical. Classic Kiriyama (talk) 13:08, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Eeep, this is embarassing. I missed logging in yesterday so I didn’t write down the dailies. Does anyone have them from 2014-02-11? Thanks :/ poke | talk 19:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually, looking at the list you've compiled, there is in fact already a 31 day cycle and we're almost at the end of its second run, which started at 2015-01-14. I've checked every daily recorded in that cycle and they fit perfectly, with one exception: the first iteration had 4 occurrences of Daily Exotic Crafter, while the second one had none, with these slots filled with Daily Shadow Behemoth (-19 and -22) and Daily Fire Elemental (-28 and -07) instead. Considering Daily Exotic Crafter hasn't appeared at all since the cycle restarted and that all other dailies are the same, I think it's safe to assume that it was simply changed in the meantime and that the cycle is now known. 23:59, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow, you may be right with that! It’s super odd though that we still haven’t seen things like Diessa Plateau Event Completer, Mount Maelstrom Event Completer, Shiverpeaks Lumberer, or Orr Miner. I was hoping for a cycle in which they would all appear equally often :/ poke | talk 07:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

There are two different schemes that would produce the results that we see here. (1) 31-day cycle, as Noxx proposes, or (2) Linked directly to day of month, so e.g. Dec 1 = Jan 1 = Feb 1. This second scheme does have precedent, as that's how our most recent previous daily system worked. We can't distinguish between these two schemes right now because December and January both had 31 days. When we hit March, we'll find out. --Veron (talk) 00:52, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I worded that poorly, but judging by the past GW2 dailies I also think it's very likely to be linked directly to the day of the month. But as you say, we can't be 100% sure until March (after all, GW1 did use the first scheme), which is why I didn't want to put that into Template:Daily yet. 00:46, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Daily Exotic Crafter was replaced by Shadow Behemoth today. poke | talk 20:42, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Poke, that's how it was in 2015-01-22 as well. Is the 2015-12-22 information correct for sure? Because that's the odd one from these three dates right now. -Tulen elementti (talk) 11:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I’m very sure about it. Until a few days ago, I was writing down all achievements individually without looking at any past achievements. So a typo like that would be very unlikely. It’s probably more likely that the Exotic Crafter was removed from the rotation, as Noxx already assumed above. poke | talk 21:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Mystery over! It's tied to day of the month and we know the full cycle. We can make a full schedule like before. Veron (talk) 05:04, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

The Exotic Crafter is still confusing me. Did it appear yesterday? Because according to my notes, it also appeared on February 19th (although that could have been a copy/paste error now on my behalf). poke | talk 16:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Jumping in to say that it definitely did not appear yesterday. —Ventriloquist 16:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Okay, then that was my mistake. Anyway, the table is live! poke | talk 17:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Low-level characters

I went through my screenshots and wrote down the dailies my low level character got. They're not complete as I was only picking those I felt like doing (basically nothing outside Metrica/Caledon until level 20) but I hope it helps. --Sialor (talk) 22:12, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Latest PvP "Winner" changes

Just an observation, as time and data will tell us what's happening, but - the new, combined-profession dailies (e.g. "Daily Warrior or Mesmer Winner) don't seem to be following a simple cycle. There are 28 such combinations available in total (excluding Revenant, which will take it up to 36); up to yesterday, we'd seen 20 of those across the 10 days since the new dailies appeared. I fully expected it would be driven by some simple computational algorithm, and we'd see the full set, followed by a cycle restart. However, today, for the first time, and with 5 pairs still not yet seen, we saw one combination (Guardian/Necro) appear again (and apparently in the same order, too). So - either there's no simple algorithm driving the sequence, or there is one but it's bugged, or the data we've got so far is wrong. Whichever - darn. 90.211.129.242 14:22, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd say with near certainty, based on precedence, that it's just manually hardcoded to the day of the month, and that Anet has just picked a more even distribution of days each profession is represented because of criticism of the previous hardcoded monthly cycle. We'll see it start repeating next month. Veron (talk) 14:36, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Well - if it were me, I'd just have written a short algorithm to pick two different combinations of two every day, working through every combination and then repeating, and independent of the date. Easy enough to do, more satisfying to code, trivial to extend to include Revenant, and a totally fair distribution to boot. But that's just me. A table that restarts each month is inevitably going to be in favour of some professions, because the numbers of days and combinations just don't balance. But having the same thing repeat once already does rather suggest a table with a dodgy entry on it. Whatever, we'll get a clue on Tuesday; as of today there are only three combinations left (Engineer/Ranger, Mesmer/Necro, Guardian/Warrior - my bet for tomorrow, based on an assumption that the repeat so far was a mistake, is on the first plus one of the other two), so we'll have to have at least one more repeated combination by then. And if things should start repeating then, and Guardian/Necro comes up again on Wednesday, I'll probably raise a bug.

(Precedent is a dodgy thing to rely on, by the way. It's a useful starting point, but my experience from decades in the software industry is that every coder - including, too often, me, if I'm honest - "knows" the "right" way to do things, and will do it their way come what may (and often even when you have tight standards telling them they shouldn't). Get a new coder involved, and most bets are off.) 90.211.129.242 07:21, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

“if it were me” – It’s not you though, and none of us either. I personally was looking forward to a more extended cycle the last time too, but it didn’t happen. And as the past has repeatedly shown, the dailies are just a cycle based on the day of month. I highly doubt they changed that now. But we’ll know for sure on June 19th. poke | talk 15:41, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

"It’s not you though, and none of us either." Yeah, I more or less said that. 8)

Well - I was right and wrong. Engineer/Ranger did indeed come up, which suggests someone was trying to fill out a table manually but not entirely rigorously (I suggested it would come up because it was the one remaining combination NOT sharing a profession with the previous duplicate); the other was another duplicate, though (and also included Engineer, to rub salt into the wound) - which suggests they failed again. I guess I'll shut up and watch for a while.90.211.129.242 08:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Somebody out there _really_ likes Engineers! --BramStoker (talk, contribs) 07:45, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

You were correct - started repeating after 31 days, and there's no evidence I can see of an algorithm. I guess the only question now is what day the cycle starts. Occurrence stats for the full month:

Engineer - 18

Ranger - 17

Guardian, Thief - 16

Elementalist, Warrior - 15

Necromancer - 14

Mesmer - 13

Most common combination: Engineer + Ranger (4 times)

Least common combination: Mesmer + Necromancer (0 times)

All other combinations appeared either 2 or 3 times

2.122.58.28 14:13, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

2015-06-08

I forgot to check the order for pvp and wvw.

• PvP: ???, ???, Daily Warrior or Engineer Winner, Daily Ranger or Necromancer Winner.
• WvW: ???, ???, ???, Daily WvW Keep Capturer.

Below are the values. Order will have to be confirmed.

2015-06-08

• Daily Maguuma Wastes Lumberer, Daily Orr Vista Viewer, Daily Harathi Hinterlands Event Completer, Daily Shadow Behemoth
• Daily PvP Defender, Daily PvP Rank Points, Daily Warrior or Engineer Winner, Daily Ranger or Necromancer Winner
• Daily WvW Caravan Disruptor, Daily Mists Guard Killer, Daily WvW Objective Defender, Daily WvW Keep Capturer

--BryghtShadow (talk) 06:15, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Guard Killer was before Caravan Disruptor, otherwise this is correct. poke | talk 06:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

5/19 patch - 45 days later

I put the dailies into a spreadsheet for visualization to look for patterns. The PvP winner dailies are on a 31-day cycle (no longer fixed to day of the month) as the anonymous commenter noted two sections above, but they appear to be the only ones. Everything else looks random generated. More discussion in my post on Reddit. --Veron (talk) 22:31, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Latest "cycle"

Aside from the Daily Profession Winners, there appears to be no real pattern. My guess is that it's either entirely random or the list has been predefined by year >.< -Chieftain Alex 12:26, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll just put this here. It seems the current rotation exceeds a year and a daily api thingy is WIP. Tyndel (talk) 12:12, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

The achievements API is now up and running. And yes, the period is 366 days, presumably to cover every day in a leap year. I'm thinking we need a widget on the wiki to pull the dailies from there. —Dr Ishmael 19:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

It seems this site always lists the daily for the next day. It also lists level thresholds which choose the dailies you get, based on the character with highest level on your account. Tyndel (talk) 11:25, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

If they fix Tyndel's link to work for the current day instead of the one after, then I've got a very basic working thing at Widget:Daily achievements. Needs the id -> name conversion added. -Chieftain Alex 15:44, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Try this endpoint instead for full details. I'm not sure why the levels are only shown on the other endpoint, but I'd argue they're not really necessary for us to display. Also, see this PR for the timing issue and resolution (won't implement until after HoT release). —Dr Ishmael 16:28, 11 October 2015 (UTC)