Talk:Critical hit

How have we not found out more about this yet? Zolann The Irreverent 00:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

More detailed informations worth mentioning?

Are "conditions"(for example Perfected Form - only affects Sword of Wrath, Executioner - when wielding an axe, Ray of Weakness - with ray of Judgment) worth mentioning? Corvus 18:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Thank you. --Moto Saxon 19:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Visual effect?

Is there any visual clue that indicates you when there is a critical hit ? I couldn't find that in the article. -Alarielle- 12:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, a red "splat" will appear behind the number that is a critical hit. Maybe that should be mentioned. --Thatshortguy 05:45, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Crit Rate Information

Do we know anything about weapons and crit rates? What's the idea of where the crit rate will be to make critical builds viable? Will the crit rate be the same for all weapons? -- Blue Phoenix 06:28, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Crits in PvE

Are mobs able to hit critically? If so, what's their chance? Gnarf 16:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I know they are able to crit, but I'm unsure of what the crit rate is. It will probably vary for each type monster. ~ ♥ Kailani! ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ 16:29, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, i believe mobs do crit, of course since we don't know how their statistics system works to identify whether it is affected by their precision or not, but until we figure how it works, i'll assume each mob has a fixed crit rate, and bosses have increased crit rate.--Rapid Sausage 22:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Crits and Conditions

Do conditions crit?, and if they do, are they affected by critical chance?--Rapid Sausage 22:51, 18 August 2

No, conditions do not crit. —Dr Ishmael 23:26, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Multi Strike Attacks

How do attacks that hit multiple targets, like piercing arrows or greatsword swings, affect critical chance? Can only the targeted enemy receive critical hits or can anyone affected receive critical hits?130.215.123.206 16:53, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

multi attacks all have the same crit chances per hit per person. however, most multi-attacks will only count one critical hit out of all of them for on-crit effects.Doubledh 05:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

That last part depends on the specific effect. Effects with a cooldown, like Sigil of Fire, will obviously only trigger once, then they're on cooldown and can't trigger again. Effects without a cooldown, like Precise Strikes, can possibly trigger on every crit, if the RNG hits the 33% window every time. —Dr Ishmael 05:34, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

the cooldown's not necessarily the problem, i can't get zealot's defense to ever proc a might on crit(by trait and by sigil) or a bleed (by sigil of earth) more than once over the duration, so i believe (and i change my statement from "most" to "some") that some skills really don't get to proc more than once (88% crit chance on a definite might gain on trait).Doubledh 04:11, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Crit Damage Formula

What's the minimum 150% base mean? does it use 150% of the minimum weapon attack rating?Doubledh 05:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

It means that with a Condition Damage attribute of +0%, all crits will deal 150% of the damage they would normally deal (which I think is still calculated randomly across your weapon's range). If your CritDmg is +50%, then your crits deal 200% damage, etc. —Dr Ishmael 05:30, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

89.110.2.199 20:49, 21 October 2012 (UTC) In previous post [Condition Damage] -> Critical damage. Formulas "Expected damage = 150% base + critical damage" and "Expected damage = Base damage * (1 + (0.50 + (Critical damage / 100)) * Critical chance)" are the different? how second formula is deduced?

I agree the Avarage damage formula should contain the 150% increase of the critical dmg. The non-refactored formula would then be "Base damage * ( 1 - Critical Chance ) + 1.5 * Base damage * ( Critical Chance * Critical Damage )". Or am I mistaken, as this subject wasn't discussed since 3 years ago? The re-factored formula I leave for a more math-minded person. Tcilegnar (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, if critical damage is 150% at minimum ferocity, then the 150% base crit damage is already included, and my previous comment is obsolete. If that's the case, a more clear explanation on the page might be helpful for the more 'simple-minded' people who like 'hard-minded' & complete explanations, like me *wink* Tcilegnar (talk) 21:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Arcane Lightning

Increases crit. damage, but is under increases chance section. Is this an oversight? --Amplifiction 14:43, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Vs downed

Today in a stream Izzy said that attacks vs downed players always crit. Can anyone confirm that? --JonTheMon (talk) 23:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Damage Increase Table

This table is useful, but it's not realistic for the GW2 environment. No one has less than 50% crit damage, and high DPS builds can easily get a 100% bonus to crit damage, which is in reality, 150% crit damage. May I change the table so that it goes from 0-100% crit chance and 50-150% crit damage? RtrnofdMax (talk) 21:19, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

The current table takes the inherent 50% crit damage into account and even says that the top numbers are crit damage bonus. Perhaps it needs to be a be more obvious? Also, I think the table starts at 5% chance since with zero precision you have 4% or so chance. --JonTheMon (talk) 21:24, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Changed the text to better explain the table. --Alad (talk) 15:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I updated one of the rows in the table that was wrong (CC=95%). --Narya firering (talk) 16:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Character shouts on crits

I started a section with the shouts which characters make on crits. I'm still uncertain, though, given how rare these shouts are, whether they shout when they deal a crit, or when they get hit with one. Sometimes I think it's the latter (although it doesn't make sense for them to say that in those circumstances). Could some people try to observe this? Thanks. --Alad (talk) 15:50, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes my female norn says something like "You'll be feeling that one for days" which I can't see already belonging for any other effects with quotes. Hit some practice golems a couple hundred times with ~40% crit rate but couldn't make it happen. Maybe there's some additional requirement such as target being below certain health threshold? Mediggo (talk) 14:34, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Could it perhaps be related to various on-crit effects activating? 15:27, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Just tested that now, at least Sigil of Air doesn't seem to trigger anything like that. Precise Strikes proccing also didn't make it happen. Mediggo (talk) 16:02, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

In a span of 5 mins, I was able to observe twice, fighting different mobs, that they say that when they _get hit_ by a critical hit. Health was at full or almost full both times, so it's not when health is low. It's still open to observation, though. Thanks. --Alad (talk) 20:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Another good example: My character was at full health, out of combat, reviving an NPC. A mob appeared and hit my character ONCE, and my character said that. So it cannot be from dealing hits, but from receiving them. If there's still any doubt, it would be whether they say this randomly or only on being critically hit. --Alad (talk) 20:47, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I suppose that particular line I mentioned earlier could also be "Will be feeling that one for days" but dunno. Mediggo (talk) 03:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

These details were edited out of the article over a few years, perhaps because it is (understandably) unintuitive or was worded unclearly. However, as of today it is still definitely easily noticeable when a character receives critical damage rather than upon causing critical damage, so I added another note under the table. Spannu (talk) 20:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Average Damage Calculation on main page is incorrect

Actual formula...

Average Damage = Base Damage x ((1 - Critical Chance)+(Total Critical Damage Bonus x Critical Chance))

Please update page -- 75.118.34.29 20:57, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

No, the current formula is correct. By your's if you hit for 50% more damage 50% of the time, you'd only do .75 base damage, not the expected 1.25. --JonTheMon (talk) 22:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Sigh, apparently the formula was updated. It's been set back to the old value, which should be correct if you want to check. --JonTheMon (talk) 22:29, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Correct. Which is why the formula on the main page is incorrect. To expect average damage to be higher than the highest potential damage from a crit is expecting the impossible.

For example when we apply numbers to the formula that is posted we see the following...

Extra crit damage = 50%, Crit Chance = %50

Base damage on crit = Base x 1.5

Average Damage including crits = Base x 1.75

Basically it doesn't make sense that the average damage inflicted from an attack be higher than the highest potential strike, which is what the posted formula says happens. -- 75.118.34.29 22:37, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

The current formula or the previous formula? --JonTheMon (talk) 22:41, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I misinterpreted the initial response, and also didn't see the follow-up. Checking... -- 75.118.34.29 22:48, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

The formula I see on the page is... "Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage + 0.5) )"

This I believe is incorrect as it allows for the average damage to be higher than a critical hit, which doesn't make sense.

The formula I posted should be correct -- 75.118.34.29 22:49, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

The new formula up there is still incorrect. Let me try to post some proof to my formula.

Base Damage - The normal amount of damage inflicted
Base Hits - Number of hits dealing base damage
Critical Bonus - The extra damage inflicted when triggering a critical hit (.5 + Prowess)
Critical Chance - The percent opportunity a hit has of triggering a critical hit

Formulai:
Total Damage = Base Damage + Critical Damage
Base Damage = Total Damage - Critical Damage
Total Hits = Base Hits + Critical Hits
Critical Hits = Total Hits - Base Hits
Critical Chance = Critical Hits / Total Hits
Critical Damage = (Base Damage x (1 + Critical Bonus))
Average Damage = ((Base Damage x Base Hits) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits)) / Total Hits

Proof:
Average Damage = ((Base Damage x Base Hits) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits)) / Total Hits
Average Damage x Total Hits = (Base Damage x Base Hits) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits)
Average Damage x Total Hits = (Base Damage x (Total Hits - Critical Hits)) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits)
Average Damage = (Base Damage x (Total Hits/Total Hits - Critical Hits/Total Hits)) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits) / Total Hits
Average Damage = Base Damage x (1 - Critical Chance) + (Critical Damage x Critical Hits) / Total Hits
Average Damage = Base Damage x (1 - Critical Chance) + Critical Damage x (Critical Hits / Total Hits)
Average Damage = Base Damage x (1 - Critical Chance) + Critical Damage x Critical Chance
Average Damage = Base Damage x (1 - Critical Chance) + Base Damage x (1 + Critical Bonus) x Critical Chance
Average Damage = Base Damage((1 - Critical Chance) + ((1 + Critical Bonus) x Critical Chance))

This is the more accurate formula...

Average Damage = Base Damage( (1 - Critical Chance) + ((1.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )

Please check and double check the math, but I am 99.99% sure that this is the correct formula, barring I've overlooked something. -- 75.118.34.29 00:52, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Starting with:
Average Damage = Base Damage( (1 - Critical Chance) + ((1.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( (1 - Critical Chance) + ((0.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) + 1 x Critical Chance )
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 - Critical Chance + Critical Chance + ((0.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + ((0.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )

So, we can simplify the formula to the final one given on the page. --JonTheMon (talk) 02:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

If we plug in values into all of those formulas the result are equal, it looks like it's all good. I just came to the same result via a different path.

My suggestion...
Average Damage = Base Damage( (1 - Critical Chance) + ((1.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )

Final formula being presented...
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + ((0.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )

Formula currently on page
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage + 0.5) 

Values:
Critical Chance: 33%
Prowess: 30%

Calculations:
My formula
Average Damage = Base Damage( (1 - .33) + ((1.5 + .3) x .33) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( .67 + (1.8 x .33) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( .67 + .594 )
Average Damage = Base Damage(1.264)

Presented Formula
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + ((.5 + .3) x .33) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + (.8 x .33) )
Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + (.264) )
Average Damage = Base Damage(1.264)

On page Formula
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + .33 * ( .3 + 0.5)
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + .33 * .8)
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + .264)
Average damage = Base damage * 1.264

It's probably best to just leave the most simplified version of the formula on the page, which is what looks like was there originally. The only confusing part is what to add in for the critical bonus, which for a prowess of .3 I was originally adding 1.3.

I like...

Average Damage = Base Damage( 1 + ((0.5 + Prowess) x Critical Chance) )

As the article page candidate -- 75.118.34.29 05:43, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The only real problem with that is "Prowess" isn't used much anymore. Would "Critical Damage stat" or "Critical Damage bonus" be clear enough? --JonTheMon (talk) 13:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

This should be on damage or damage calculation instead of the critical hit article tbh.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:37, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

LOL! Relyk... you mess up the formula, which starts this discussion, then come and say the discussion should be on a different page.. :D --Alad (talk) 03:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

hmmm? I didn't mess up any formula. I didn't suggest in my comment that discussion should be anywhere. Meh, this is a late response.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Question about critical hits, critical damage, and glancing blows

According to the wiki page for glancing blows an attack can now be both a critical hit and a glancing blow, in which case "additional damage as a critical hit [is] removed."

So, considering that, my question is how critical hit damage interacts with this. Do you still get any bonus critical damage on a glancing critical if you have extra crit damage or is all of the bonus damage from a crit nullified? A good example would be a glancing critical hit with an additional +30% crit damage from the attacker, would it do 130% damage (base crit damage bonus of 50% removed) or would it only do 100% damage? If it's the former then players don't get screwed as much when weakened if they rely on crits for damage, but if it's the latter then getting weakened is really harsh against certain setups and its benefits would vary quite a bit, which is a lame inconsistency (in my opinion) if true. Pjwned (talk) 06:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

April Changes, Update Formula?

Now that crit chance is shown w/ the base 1.5 added in, should the formula be changed to reflect that?

Something like Average Damage = (1-Crit Chance) * Base Damage + Base Damage * Crit Chance * Crit Damage?

simplified a bit more to look like: Average Damage = Base Damage * (1 + Crit Chance * (Crit Damage -1))

I think that works, someone double-check me?

70.150.71.66 14:44, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Yep, updated. —Dr Ishmael 15:15, 23 April 2014 (UTC)