Talk:Cantha

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Is their anything we can do to expand this right now? Van Harl 12:05, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

take what u find here maybe; The Movement of the World --Cursed Angel 13:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Most things can't be expanded as of right now; I've given up on them... -- Armond Warblade 07:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Things can always be expanded, just not always accurately. :P Lord Belar 20:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Omg, from what i've read in the little text, i see that kurzick and luxon doesn't exist anymore, then what is the use of a savior title, or Ally title? iff you're reunited anyway? It ofcourse kicks out all the rivality that's created amongst the year between the lux and kurz ppl... but still, it's a bummer... 78.21.7.221 19:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Any genuine "rivalry" between players is stupid and childish in my opinion, especially when you don't actually have to choose a side for the rest of your life. And that it's a game, but anyhoo. I doubt the effects of the alliance titles would be felt in Guild Wars 2 as alliance-related anyway, just some other random effect as any other title would probably have. -- pling | ggggg 19:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...so my guess is that this will be the second GW2 campaign...if ArenaNet sticks with the campaign format. I love Cantha :)...best continent...Shing Jea Island is just great...the environment...MUSIC...etc. I hope Shing Jea Island has not been attacked :/ Shew 03:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Cantha sucked, the city was like a multi level maze, jade sea was utterly confusing and forest was a mess.--Beryn 04:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You've gotta be kidding me...about Shing Jea island...at least?Shew 03:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Has there still been no bloody news??? Maybe they have packed it in like Startrek online or its gonna be like Duke Nukem forever.

Have some patience... Cress Arvein 22:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

What is everyone's problem with Cantha? Don'y get me wrong, the storyline for Factions was a joke, but a lot of people seem to really hate the place.12.6.238.154 00:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

CANTHA FTW24.5.17.156 07:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Annoying mobs/ areas, almost no freedom untill you've finished the game, it's short, people don't like the storyline (which I do) and Master Togo... --The Holy Dragons 08:05, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

It was not that great ;/ i still have to get Cartographer -_- --Angelkiss 08:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I can only speak for myself of course but I think that while there are definitely very funky things about cantha, there's a lot that's not to like. For me, it's first and foremost the environment. Big ugly dirty city spans one third of the map, the other two thirds are either all bright green all the time or almost all grey all the time. Not a lot of variety. The storyline I find to be okay actually. Nothing mindblowing, but nothing too horrible either. Alliance battles and things like FA/JQ are totally awesome, but in PvE there's always the fact that the environment feels a bit bland and samey all the time. Add to that that it's quite short and you get the general idea. Pfophecies had you take an age to get to lvl 20, factions overcompensated, nightfall got it pretty much right in my book. 199.245.34.11 10:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I hated nf lmao. --Angelkiss 11:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

(reset indent) Eh, it was okay in my book. Leveling curve was okay, new professions were funky, heroes were a nice addition, inscribable weapons, etc. Lots of good gameplay introductions. Storywise mostly alright, though I didn't like certain sections. I liked the fact that I got to punch a god in the face though :D Best part of GW for me is prolly EotN though. In no small part because I love Gwen :p 199.245.34.11 11:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

YEAH! I loved it how they added heroes with factions! (and shiro is an awesome god) --The Holy Dragons 12:17, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

we were talkin bout NF lol--Angelkiss 14:22, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

shiro wans't a god he was an envoy essentially a demigod type being. The gods consist of Balthazar, Melandru, Lyssa, Dwayna, Grenth, and Kormir...along with defeated gods Abbadon and the great and powerful DHUUM.--174.255.203.48 13:56, 10 September 2017 (UTC)Grandpa

The Movement of the World

Emperor Usoku's defeating the Kurzicks and Luxons reminds me of the abolition of the Tokugawa shogunate. I bet, within 250 years, Cantha has had great industrial advances; this would be parallel to the Meiji Restoration; I think ANet is indirectly showing this.-- Shewmake 16:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the advancement (wouldn't use "great" though - as the Asura will probably advance Tyria as much/more), but dunno about the references. We'll have to wait and see. -- Konig Des Todes 17:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a good point, and since Usoku cut off communication with the rest of Tyria, I wonder who or what Cantha would get its technical influences from if ANet is showing a GW version of Westernization. Maybe, if this is referenced, this is where the similarities depart.-- Shewmake 17:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Dredge Tunnels Suspiciously Absent

One thing I've found suspicious in the discussion about the isolation of Cantha is that there is no mention about the Dredge tunnels from the Shiverpeaks to the Echovald Forest. I assume the Asura Gates are compromised by the dragons, and sea travel is obviously curtailed, but what about the good old tunnels? (OK, OK, I confess, I just want to see that long-@$$ tunnel under the ocean. I wonder if it leaks? Did the continental shifts of Orr damage it? If so, why didn't the Dredge just dig a new one, since the previous one appears to have been dug in a rather short period of time?) -- Tometheus (talk) 19:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The Depths of Tyria - which would include these tunnels - are controlled by the Ancient Dragon Primordus. I would assume that is an equal reason the Dredge are now roaming upon the surface, not just freedom. And as they are free, there is no reason to dig new tunnels. And it is just as possible that an Asura Gate was used in these tunnels between the continents.-- Konig Des Todes 00:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hoping

theres been a few questions as to weather or not Cantha will even be in GW2, to which I say of course...theres so much inside Cantha, we still have frozen valleys down south to explore, maybe Cantha's streets won't be mazes of lumper and pipes, and raw sewage, and the Tengu as another race for GW2 factions maybe? and there must be some dragons here, we've only touched upon the ones in the Tyria which area is likley to have the most dragons...yes Cantha, (China) they have a dragon festival....must have dragons there too Zachariah Zuan. 00:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily, the Elder Dragons could be linked to the Giganticus Lupicus which are only known to have been in northern Elona and Tyria areas. Also, the Elder Dragons woke up every 50 years, first one being Primordus - last one being Kralkatorrik which would be right before GW2. Unless Cantha opens up 50 years after the first game in lore, there won't be another Elder Dragon. Besides, having the same kind of enemy in every expansion will get boring. -- Konig/talk 01:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

good point...maybe the 2nd Tengu wars? and the option to choose side (but maybe either way will lead to peace) Zachariah Zuan. 08:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

According to gw1:An Empire Divided, the second recorded Tengu War ended a year before Factions. But yeah, another Tengu War would be possible. Interesting reoccuring theme of Guild Wars - every continent have series of wars under the same name (Guild Wars, Tengu Wars, and (Great) Corsair Wars). But truth be told, I don't see any real conflict in GW2 for Cantha - Usoku would be dead so for all we know, Cantha could be trading with Elona at the start of GW2, and there is no threat or reason to go to Cantha. Personally, I hope we only go to Cantha when we're heading south of Cantha, to the supposed human homeland. -- Konig/talk 11:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The last dragon awoke in Tyria 50 years ago, and since contact's been cut off with the other two continents, who's to say that another dragon won't awaken in present-day Cantha or Elona? A dragon could really throw a spanner in the works for Joko, and I've got a feeling that Cantha isn't called the Empire of the Dragon for no reason... --Santax (talk · contribs) 11:50, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect, Primordus woke up 50 years after EN, then Jormag (100), then Zhaitan (150), then the Deep Sea Dragon (200), then Kralkatorrik (250). And I believe the Empire of the Dragon is called such because of either Kuunavang. -- Konig/talk 15:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

wait what? I thought Primordus (should've been called Primordius) woke up directly after?....actually good point...that'd be disasteruous. but who says they have to follow the 50 year cycle? Zachariah Zuan. 15:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The Movement says Primordus slept for 2 generations. Jeff Grubb said the dragons wake up about 50 years from each other. -- Konig/talk 16:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the Deep Sea Dragon will have its influence on Cantha. So far it is the only dragon with no big impact on Tyria and the fact that most of Cantha is either along the Unending Ocean or the Jade Sea (assuming it has melted) points towards it being a big part of Cantha.--69.166.47.143 04:14, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Nobody lives forever. You guys know what happens when the dictator of a nation passes away? Power vacuum. Mediggo 06:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

You know what happens when a patriarchal hereditary leadership's leader passes away? His son gets the crown. Fun fact about Canthan emperors: According to gw1:An Empire Divided, they like to revert what the previous ruler did, so Usoku's descendants could of opened Cantha's doors to all races for all we know. (@IP with the DSD - Jade Sea is unlikely, and Tyria and Elona are along the Unending Ocean too). Konig/talk 13:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

There is still power vacuum. Especially if there is no heir or they are too young to govern the nation in the fullest. Which tends to be the case when talking about dictators. Mediggo 13:51, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing that Usoku's heirs didn't revert the state of isolation ; they'd have mentioned it in the Movement of the World otherwise, since most of the other information of the article is up-to-date as to how the world currently is at the time of the game. It would make no sense to silence Cantha reopening its borders in the article. -Alarielle- 18:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

But the contact and trade is blocekd because of the deep sea dragon's and Zhaitan's influence. The article mentions latest known state of Cantha, not the current (1325 AE) one. Usoku rose to power in 1127 AE... well, there is that statement... "It can only be assumed that Usoku's successors continued his dictatorial, isolationist rule, and that Cantha continues beneath the iron fist of the emperor, as ever. " Arenanet has left things pretty open in Cantha so anything could happen, I suppose. Mediggo 18:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Cantha and Empire of the Dragon

They are used pretty interchangably, but is it actually alright to link the name of the continent and the name of the empire that way? Most of the continent has almost always been under Empire of the Dragon, except during early days when Luxons and Kurzicks were independent. Mediggo 08:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

If we want to split this article to distinguish between the continent of Cantha and the state that (currently?) governs most of it, then I think the time for it is now before the xpac drops and the wiki is filled with ambiguous links. I've added a template to the page. –Santax (talk · contribs) 17:48, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd be in support of splitting the article between those two as certain nations (particularly human-led ones such as the Empire of the Dragon) have so much lore (politics, culture, economics, religion etc.) which should not clutter the actual region page, especially if we end up discovering autonomous settlements/areas in Cantha that do not belong to the human-controlled empire. :) --Kossage (talk) 19:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I also agree to divide, since the Dragon Empire is something and exclusive to humans, apart from Cantha is a continent, we should not confuse it with an empire. Since Cantha was or is the home of several tribes.--Angelica (talk) 00:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

I would support the split as well. I think the other people above have summarised reasoning for it to be split well enough that I don't need to explain mine. Sunlion (talk) 08:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Well then, does it mean that we can split the article or should we wait? --Angelica (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

One piece of opposition (Doodle) against 4 votes for, from my counting. I'd say wait a day or so but if no more opposition votes appear then split. Sunlion (talk) 20:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of the idea; simply put, I think we do not have enough information at this time. I see the release page with "Empire of the Dragon = another name for Cantha" and would prefer not to jump into speculations and theories. If we get more information, I'll have no objections, but for now, I'd rather wait. - Do_odleplex 22:56, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

The issue to consider is that ArenaNet does not separate region naming from nation naming. Cantha isn't the only example of this - Kryta, Ascalon, Elona are also great issues. To a lesser extent, so are Kourna, Vabbi, Istan from Domain of Kouna, Domain of Istan, and Domain of Vabbi (which is why I highly disagree with this move that happened during my year break because they're not the same) but luckily those are technically different names due to "Domain of". You have the geographical region of these, and then the nations who's borders have shifted over the years and no longer contain the whole region (or contain more than, in Elona's case as of GW2, ironically the inverse of Elona's situation in GW1). The thing is that if we split this, we should split all. That's a lot of article fixing, for not much gain unless we get to explore a lot of Cantha that isn't the Empire (which at the moment seems abysmally low chance).

Personally, I'm of the opinion of not splitting Cantha (and by extension, not splitting Kryta, Ascalon, and Elona between nation and geographical lands), but my opinion may change should we get at least one zone firmly outside the Empire of the Dragon's territory and the mechanical region isn't given an alternative name (e.g., how we got Crystal Desert for PoF zones, so Desert Highlands and Crystal Oasis, not being part of Elona nation, are also not part of Elona mechanical region or lore region). If that stance makes sense. Konig (talk) 23:17, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

2 against, 4 for. I suppose wait a few more days now that more complaints have been registered. In general, there's about a week's discussion period after such suggestions are made if I remember correctly. Sunlion (talk) 04:33, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I have to say I am personally torn, I partially agree both with Kossage and Konig. Since the history of Cantha is basically the history of the Empire, I would probably go with the GW1W approach for now and create a section for the Empire on this page. ~Sime 18:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. If we have enough verified information to split at a later time, we can do it then, but for now, a section would probably be fine. - Do_odleplex 18:22, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I think the timing is important, because if we wait until the expansion to release we'll have a lot more wikilinks to go through and disambiguate. For what it's worth we've been through this discussion before, re: Ascalon and Kingdom of Ascalon (although the discussion is actually at Talk:Kryta#Splitting the article). I think most of the arguments still stand. There was also a similar discussion on Talk:Elona#Split pre-Path of Fire but it descended into an argument about semantics and no decision was made. On a page for the land of Cantha we could document the geography and history of the land itself including pre-imperial history, which it wouldn't make that much sense to document on an article just about the empire. On the other hand, in an article about the empire we'd presumably talk about how it's governed, its laws, its cultures, its military, which wouldn't make as much sense on a page that's just about the continent. I think there's more than enough content here to span two articles. –Santax (talk · contribs) 06:56, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I 100% agree. Therefore, I think that if it is decided that this page should be split this page, we should also split the Kingdom of Kryta and the Kingdom of Elona in their own separate pages for the sake of consistency. If votes are still being counted, I'm against the split given the current precedent unless Kryta and Elona are also split. I would like to add that while a page for the Kingdom of Ascalon does exist, the circumstances are different because the Kingdom itself no longer exists. --Teletric.3821 (talk) 20:12, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Conventionally we try to make decisions by consensus—voting's only really for when consensus absolutely cannot be reached. This becomes more difficult only when we've got Cantha content to populate the wiki with (so if there's a BWE that takes us to Cantha), so in the meantime I think we should just keep discussing it and only take it to a vote if a BWE is bearing down on us and things are getting desperate.

FWIW, if we're splitting out regions and nations/governments (beyond what we already do—e.g. Iron Legion, Deldrimor, Arcane Council, etc.), I think we should also have a page for the Kingdom of Orr. There's a lot we learn about the fallen kingdom in events etc. that isn't really documented anywhere. –Santax (talk · contribs) 13:47, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Well, I think since it is now few weeks before End of Dragons releases, we should decide. Of course, there is always the potential option of splitting it after the expansion once we know if there will be more lore to justify it. ~Sime 23:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Will the separation of Cantha and the Dragon Empire be made or will everything stay together? --Angelica (talk) 19:55, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

I see the new article has already been created, but I feel like we may not have enough evidence at this time to confirm other independent states on the continent besides the empire itself which is oddly referred to as Empire of Cantha rather than the Empire of the Dragon in EoD, so having a separate page for the empire may not necessarily be justified for the time being after it got so many votes for and against splitting. Then again, I haven't encountered all dialogue yet, so there may be voiced or written references to that exact name, but story steps have only called it Empire of Cantha so far, curiously enough. --Kossage (talk) 02:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, the only currenct GW2 reference to "Empire of the Dragon" I could find is the official synopsis of the Canthan continent on the GW2 EoD purchase page. ~Sime 00:10, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Given it's a month post-launch, my opinion is still against splitting here. We've currently no map that's outside of the Empire, and at no point is Cantha not called the empire from what I see. Like in GW1, "Cantha" and "the Empire" are synonymous and interchangable, basically the same thing. Season 6 may change things, but that's several months down the line still. As things stand, there's no point in separating as all it does is increase clicks, loads, and hard to find articles for the reader base. Konig (talk) 10:35, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

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wheres the Canthan region? or they've been wiped from Tyrian exsistance? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.82.237.184 (talk).

The region has yet to be added to the in-game world map. It will be revealed in game once the End of Dragons expansion goes live similar to how the rest of Elona was revealed during the launch of the Path of Fire expansion and Living World Season 4 Episode 1: Daybreak. :) --Kossage (talk) 19:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Getting there

Is there really no way to get there without using waypoints, if you haven't gotten the Arborstone scroll yet? Like, if you do story, get to Seitung, then go to Lion's Arch or something, there's no way to come back other than waypoints? Rose Of Kali 02:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Gods or beliefs

Can someone tell me, what are the current beliefs of Cantha? Because what we have from EoD, there are no mentions of the gods, except for this book Belief in Cantha that mentions that after the Zhaitan Disaster people stopped believing and that they have already passed from fashion the gods and from what I understand people began to worship Soo-Won. If you look, there are no temples, shrines, statues or anything about the gods, did they give up this belief and are now atheists or something like that? I'm mentioning this because in Cantha's article, there is the religion section, but this is about the original GW, what I'm going for is that I would like to update the Religion section and I'm also thinking of adding the Three Queens, although I don't know if to do it. Or we leave it like that until the story progresses further. --Angelica (talk) 17:19, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding the Belief in Cantha book, it clearly says that the belief in gods is still prevalent, albeit mainly in poor communities, not that everyone just worships Soo-Won now. ~Sime 20:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I read it again and it is clear that the 6 gods are still worshiped (5 now), but that does not take away my curiosity, that if they continue to worship the gods, because there are no temples, nor statues of them. When the Tsunami happened, Kryta built the city of Divinity and with it a new temple, although small, even in the Ebon Hawk there are statues, just like in the Desert in Amnoon there is an altar. But here in Cantha I haven't seen any, not even priests. So would it be okay if we add the three queens and Soo-Won as deities, or do we just leave the Three Queens along with the gods? --Angelica (talk) 21:01, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

As we upgrade Arborstone to make it more hospitable to visitors, we do see more and more pilgrims and other faithful stopping by to utter prayers in the aptly named temple called the Sanctuary of the Five. It doesn't have that many visitors even when fully upgraded but we do see a Krytan tourist, an Elonian merchant, regular Canthans and some Canthans with the Kurzick/Luxon face paint/tattoos among the pilgrims and refugees, which to me suggests that Canthans from all walks of life do hold some reverence towards the Five/Six even if that number of faithful is diminishing due to the popularity of Soo-Won among the masses. I'm also unsure if Soo-Won would be viewed as a deity per se, at least not before the reveal of her origins, because she lacks temples dedicated to her but she would at least be viewed as a greater version of Kuunavang--a powerful dragon protector/savior of the realm. We haven't really heard any Canthans uttering phrases like "By the Six!" or the like when referring to Soo-Won although it's difficult to make assessments one way or another as we don't get to delve into the minutiae of Canthan life and if any such phrases are in use but we simply haven't heard them in-game. There's also some suggestion in Dragon's End that some Canthans do at least respect the so-called spirits of nature, which is one of the reasons why the Shrine Guardian grew from an intangible wisp-like spirit into the physical kitsune with great powers as her power and magic was somehow fueled by how many mortals revered her and the sacred site she was protecting while, in contrast, the Shrine Cat's power diminished as people stopped revering her. --Kossage (talk) 17:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

There is also the Garden of Lyssa in New Kaineng City, with a citizen praying to Lyssa. Archivist Quillstrike also mentions holy sites of the Six in the Echovald. I am sure there's more but we are just overlooking it. ~Sime 17:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Overall I think the general sense in Cantha is that they have foregone the whole "temple" thing in favor of small local shrines such as Ihn's Grace and Garden of Lyssa. The only temple I can find that's post-Zhaitan is Temple of Preeminence but I can't find a single reference to what it's a temple for. The rest are either renovated or pre-Zhaitan. Overall, I don't think there was much care put in by the devs to show their religious side in general; whether this was meant as an intentional nod of Canthans being less faithful overall or just them focusing on putting their budget on other topics is currently impossible to confirm without dev input. My take is that similar to Kryta, faith in the gods has been in steady decline due to their silence, and there was a (momentary) rise of faith in Soo-Won due to her intervention in the Zhaitan Disaster. So overall, Canthans went from a religious of dual reverence (ancestors and Six Gods) to triple reverence (plus Soo-Won). Some lean more towards one than the others, some are equal. Konig (talk) 06:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)