Talk:Vision (race)
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Rename[edit]
I feel like this might be better renamed as something else since most of them are related to the Pale Tree who shows things as they could be, not an actual memory of what was 99% of the time. Thoughts? I know there's already one group called "Echo" so perhaps "Vision"? "Echo (Pale Tree)"? I don't know, just not Memory, it's not accurate. - Doodleplex 22:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- Many NPCs in the list have no relation to the Pale Tree in any way so this move wouldn't be accurate either. Ex: Asgeir Dragonrender, Hero (NPC), Keeper of the Shrine/Orrian Acolyte, Risen Human/Servant of Zhaitan and Vision of Raven. Given the broad description in the header of the page, I think the page is fine as is. Nero9012 (talk) 02:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm, then perhaps "Vision"? Either way, just something other than "memory" since...they aren't "something remembered from the past". - Doodleplex 02:56, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Categorizing these is tricky indeed given how the Dream operates. We now have confirmation via Aurene and Kralkatorrik's intertwined fates (and Zafirah's involvement in it) as well as the Vemyen's Branding progression for the Requiem collection in Jahai Bluffs that some fates are apparently prophesied and predestined (what force is behind these prophecies is sadly unknown as of this writing) with no way to change the foregone conclusion. As such one could imagine this page to also categorize "memories of what is yet to be, or what could be" with the wonky way the Dream works (e.g. when it comes to the "bad future" Destiny's Edge visions we meet in A Light in the Darkness). As for the terminology used by NPCs and lore articles, in the Hearts and Minds story step we encounter beings in the Dream that are explicitly referenced as "visions" in story objectives (e.g. "Defeat the vision of Canach") although actual NPC in-game dialogue refers to these Dream manifestations as "illusions." Caithe calls the Dream's visions as both "transparent visions of things past, things that can and will affect your future" and "memories of the many who have awakened before us" in Fighting the Nightmare. Pokka calls the magically recreated memories of the Orrian priests as "old emotional resonance—visions of the past [...] image residue of the Orrians" in Cathedral of Silence (story). Jhavi calls a vision revealed by the Raven lens an "echo from the recent past" in Research Notes: Ancient Raven Lens. And the achievement "The Whole Story" in The Departing has the following description text for the ghostly visions of our past that we encounter: "Stop and watch all of the memories." So I suppose "vision" would work here as a catch-all term although these "ghostly" visions (which in some cases are memories too) are different from the Ryland etc. visions we get to live through as revealed by the Scrying Pool related shenanigans in the Eye of the North's Hall of Monuments. Yes, it's quite confusing. :P --Kossage (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- I really appreciate how thoroughly you looked into this. It sounds like for the most part most of the in game references seem to be called "visions", so I'm going to edit my move tag accordingly. Thank you for your insight Kossage! - Doodleplex 18:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Visions definitely feels like a better fit, but it might be confused with the visions granted by the Scrying Pool.
However, there is evidence for ghosts acting as described by this article - in gww:The Flight North, a group of ghosts re-live the same experiences over repeatedly, until specific, minute changes to the environment are made - Foefire ghosts in gw2 also often seem to be "stuck in a loop," though that may be due to the nature of dungeons and dynamic events.I unfortunately don't have any better suggestions, unless you feel "self-hypnotic defect" fits. horrible | contribs 18:37, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Visions definitely feels like a better fit, but it might be confused with the visions granted by the Scrying Pool.
- I really appreciate how thoroughly you looked into this. It sounds like for the most part most of the in game references seem to be called "visions", so I'm going to edit my move tag accordingly. Thank you for your insight Kossage! - Doodleplex 18:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Categorizing these is tricky indeed given how the Dream operates. We now have confirmation via Aurene and Kralkatorrik's intertwined fates (and Zafirah's involvement in it) as well as the Vemyen's Branding progression for the Requiem collection in Jahai Bluffs that some fates are apparently prophesied and predestined (what force is behind these prophecies is sadly unknown as of this writing) with no way to change the foregone conclusion. As such one could imagine this page to also categorize "memories of what is yet to be, or what could be" with the wonky way the Dream works (e.g. when it comes to the "bad future" Destiny's Edge visions we meet in A Light in the Darkness). As for the terminology used by NPCs and lore articles, in the Hearts and Minds story step we encounter beings in the Dream that are explicitly referenced as "visions" in story objectives (e.g. "Defeat the vision of Canach") although actual NPC in-game dialogue refers to these Dream manifestations as "illusions." Caithe calls the Dream's visions as both "transparent visions of things past, things that can and will affect your future" and "memories of the many who have awakened before us" in Fighting the Nightmare. Pokka calls the magically recreated memories of the Orrian priests as "old emotional resonance—visions of the past [...] image residue of the Orrians" in Cathedral of Silence (story). Jhavi calls a vision revealed by the Raven lens an "echo from the recent past" in Research Notes: Ancient Raven Lens. And the achievement "The Whole Story" in The Departing has the following description text for the ghostly visions of our past that we encounter: "Stop and watch all of the memories." So I suppose "vision" would work here as a catch-all term although these "ghostly" visions (which in some cases are memories too) are different from the Ryland etc. visions we get to live through as revealed by the Scrying Pool related shenanigans in the Eye of the North's Hall of Monuments. Yes, it's quite confusing. :P --Kossage (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm, then perhaps "Vision"? Either way, just something other than "memory" since...they aren't "something remembered from the past". - Doodleplex 02:56, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
