Talk:Kingdom of Ascalon

Deletion

I think there's still an on-going discussion over on Talk:Kryta whether this page and others are necessary. :x talk 17:39, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Ascalon's greatest extent

In response to this edit summary: "According to GW1, the Cathedral of Flames was a bunch of spoils of war, taken from Ascalon. I've seen nothing to suggest that humans were ever in Grothmaw, excluding the Ebon Vanguard". GW1 doesn't actually say that the dungeon CoF "is the spoils of war" (that doesn't make any sense), but that it contains "a stash of treasure plundered from Ascalonian ruins". The architects of the Cathedral of Flames in GW1 are never stated. There's a bit of Ascalonian architecture deep in the dungeon, but I'd be willing to put that down to asset reuse from the rushed development of GW:EN and I guess, at a push, the charr could have plundered part of an entire building or something. There are also, I believe, Ascalonian-style bridges around Grothmar Warowns, which is further evidence of humans being that far north. In GW2, at both the Cathedral of Flames Gate and the Ooze Pit there are entire Ascalonian buildings the height of the Great Northern Wall. I think it'd be wrong to not at least point that out somewhere. –Santax (talk · contribs) 10:10, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

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The issue is that "Ascalonian" ruins are often ArenaNet's "go-to generic ruins" and are used outside Ascalon, such as Koga Ruins. If ruins aren't moss-covered in the core game, then it's the "Ascalonian ruins" assets they're made out of. So their mere presence doesn't confirm Ascalonian presence too.

As I see it we have three possibilities:

1. Sometime before GW1, humans inhabited this land and built two underground settlements.
2. Charr took buildings as spoils of war from Ascalon.
3. These are not Ascalonian ruins despite the shared model.

We don't have enough information to say one way or another. Another question to ask devs should they do a Q&A like they did for most S4 releases. Konig (talk) 14:03, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

The ruins aren't underground? They're both above-ground, and of Ascalonian design. It's Occam's razor, and the simplest explanation is that Ascalon had settlements here. Not that the charr looted entire buildings and reconstructed them in the Ascalonian style, brick by brick (do you actually believe this, or is this just sophistry?). While asset reuse is certainly a thing (FWIW the ruins in Fort Koga barely resemble Ascalonian ruins - ANet have clearly taken pains to remove their most distinctive features), we have here ruins made from Ascalonian assets in an area strongly connected to Ascalon - the simplest explanation is that they are Ascalonian ruins, surely? Just because we haven't seen much evidence of humans this far north before doesn't mean that they haven't been this far north (and there's nothing to say that they haven't). But it's not like the edit I'm referencing above was trying to pull a fast one on readers - it says that ruins resembling Ascalonian architecture have been found as far north as Grothmar Valley, and links these to the greatest extent of the Kingdom of Ascalon (and it makes it clear that this is a supposition). –Santax (talk · contribs) 22:03, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

In all honesty, the only reason why I saw the edit was this reddit post, where the unexplained presence prompted a redditor to ask why they're there, and then they saw this edit, and thought that was a fact and not supposition. I get it was unintended, but it had that effect, so I added the citation request tag in hopes it was actually stated and not theorized. Konig (talk) 03:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, while the author of that reddit post should definitely read more carefully - I think the article makes it clear enough that the wiki is not authoritatively stating that Ascalon went as far north as Grothmar Valley, but that Ascalonian-style ruins can be found that far north and that this suggests the greatest extend of Ascalon - I will try to make it clearer. –Santax (talk · contribs) 06:28, 21 September 2019 (UTC)