Talk:Guild Mine

Break Even Point

Break even to what exactly? --138.229.153.143 22:49, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

In this circumstance, Break even: the cost (in Aetherium) vs the benefit, how long until the increased rate of production exceeds the cost. ~ 1Maven (talk) 23:14, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

It's not possible to get any rate increase without the necessary capacity increase, so what would be a good reason to not consider it apart of cost for rate that we would calculate break even without it? --138.229.153.143 00:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

The reason is simple. Guilds raise their Aetherium capacity to obtain guild hall upgrades other then rate that also require the larger capacity. This is the reason they were separated. ~ 1Maven (talk) 00:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Updated Break Evens to reflect the actual rate of extra aetherium

The term "extra aetherium" needs to be clarified. Otherwise, the new calculations do not make sense. ~ 1Maven (talk) 00:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Extra Aetherium put simply is the aetherium you receive due to mining rate increases when compared to the original speed. Mining Rate 1 = 1 extra aetherium every five minutes for a total of 6. Mining Rate 2 = 1 extra aetherium every 2 minutes for a total of 3. Mining Rate 3 is 1 extra aetherium every 1 minute for a total of 2. Edit: Some of the original rates were listed wrong, and the calculations based on them were wrong as a result. --138.229.153.143 06:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you could share your formula and calculation. For Mining Rate 2, mine are:

(3.33 minutes) / (40 seconds per aetherium at mining rate 2) * (60 seconds per minute) = 5.0 aetherium

(3.33 minutes) / (50 seconds per aetherium at mining rate 1) * (60 seconds per minute) = 4.0 aetherium

A difference of one aetherium, whereas currently

(2 minutes) / (40 seconds per aetherium at mining rate 2) * (60 seconds per minute) = 3.0 aetherium

(2 minutes) / (50 seconds per aetherium at mining rate 1) * (60 seconds per minute) = 2.4 aetherium

A difference of only 0.6 aetherium. Please help me understand why the table should not be reverted to the original values. ~ 1Maven (talk) 11:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't see what your formula is trying to calculate, the one I saw suggested that it was only counting additonal aetherium per upgrade when getting to

The formula I saw and was able to confirm is 60H/A=M where H is hours A is aetherium cost and M is minutes per extra aetherium.

M*A/60=H M is the number that takes 60/U to the first whole number when U equals new Mining Rate. A is the aetherium cost.

Mining Rate 1 = 5*1500/60=125 : 60/50 = 1.2 : 1.2+1.2+1.2+1.2+1.2=6=1.2*5

Mining Rate 2 = 2*3000/60=100 : 60/40 = 1.5 : 1.5+1.5=3=1.5*2

Mining Rate 3 = 1*5000/60=83.33 : 60/30 = 2 : 2=2=2*1

--138.229.153.143 07:48, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) The formula I gave was for calculating the value for "1 extra aetherium every". If that calculation is wrong then so are all the others derived from it. We agree on 5 minutes for Mining Rate 1, but for Mining Rate 2, I have 3.33 minutes compared to your 2 minutes (the previous calculations demonstrate how this was derived) and for Mining Rate 3, I have 2 minutes compared to your 1 minute. Please explain how your values for "1 extra aetherium every" were determined and include units in all formulas (you do for most but not all), which might explain what "60" is, seconds per minute, minutes per hour or something else. Does "60" have different units in different formulas? ~ 1Maven (talk) 08:27, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

We are trying to find the time to nearest additional whole aetherium, this means as the rate changes so will the number of minutes to get the first whole extra aetherium.

Mining Rate 0 = 1 minute * 60 (convert to seconds) is 60 seconds. 60 seconds / 60 seconds = 1

Mining Rate 1 = 5 minutes * 60 (convert to seconds) is 300 seconds. 300 seconds / 50 seconds = 6

Mining Rate 2 = 2 minutes * 60 (convert to seconds) is 120 seconds. 120 seconds / 40 seconds = 3

Mining Rate 3 = 1 minute * 60 (convert to seconds) is 60 seconds. 60 sesconds / 30 seconds = 2

--138.229.153.143 18:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Using the values from your calculations:

• In 5 minutes, at Mining Rate 1 produce 6 (300/50) aetherium, at Mining Rate 0 produce 5.0 (300/60) aetherium, a difference of 1.0
• In 2 minutes, at Mining Rate 2 produce 3 (120/40) aetherium, at Mining Rate 1 produce 2.4 (120/50) aetherium, a difference of 0.6
• In 1 minute, at Mining Rate 3 produce 2 (60/30) aetherium, at Mining Rate 2 produce 1.5 (60/40) aetherium, a difference of 0.5

Works fine for Mining Rate 1, giving the expected difference of 1.0, but not for the other two. ~ 1Maven (talk) 21:45, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

There is no difference of 1 where you're looking for it. The difference between upgrades is not exactly 1. It's a fraction. Additionally 120/50 is 2.4 not 2.2. --138.229.153.143 22:05, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

My point is that the difference must be exactly 1.0 for "one extra aetherium". Any fraction (0.6 or 0.5) is wrong and the result of choosing the wrong time, which should be 3.33 minutes (for Tier 2) and 2 minutes (for Tier 3). Use those times and the actual difference matches the expected difference of 1.0 in all cases. ~ 1Maven (talk) 22:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) My calculations are based against Mining Rate 0 not against any other rate. I am calculating how long it takes (compared to the original rate) to get to a single extra aetherium. This is the necessary calculation since what upgrading the mining rate changes is how soon you will get your extra aetherium.--138.229.153.143 22:34, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah ha! that explains why we seem to be talking past each other. I am calculating how long it takes compared to the prior level to get to a single extra aetherium. It seems to me that an analysis compared to the prior level is of more interest to a guild already at level 2 and considering going to level 3, and so on. What do you think? ~ 1Maven (talk) 22:49, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Ok here is the issue I think should be addressed. Aetherium per minute, even if it might be in decimal notation, is much easier to understand. If I want to work out how much more aetherium I am receiving per minute comparing tier 3 and tier 4, it is just easier to see it as a decimal. When I am considering upgrading from tier 2 to tier 3 lets say, I can see that I am receiving 1.5 aetherium per minute at T2 and 2 aetherium per minute at T3 and calculate in my head that after 2 minutes I am receiving 1 more aetherium per 2 minutes. decimals are easy. ------Firepandas (talk) 22:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I've reorganized the table to include everything mentioned, although I still question the usefulness of calculations from the initial level. It also raises another issue. If "Extra Aetherium Every" is calculated from the the initial level then should not "Break Even" also? For example, on level 2, instead of 100 and 150, should it not be cumulative, 100+125=225 and 150+167=317? I leave it to you to determine the answer and to fill in the "Initial Level" part of the table. ~ 1Maven (talk) 11:01, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect Information

The sentence "It is possible to dedicate all aetherium production to maximizing capacity and rate before any other upgrades" is factually incorrect as you cannot gain the required guild levels for the higher tiers of increase without doing other upgrades. Consider revising? --Atrophied.8725 (talk)

Thanks for pointing that out. You're completely correct. Hopefully, you approve of the adjustments that I've made. ~ 1Maven (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)