Talk:Ebon Vanguard

There seems to be some discrepancy throughout the GW2 wiki about the Ascalonian force that actually holds Ebonhawke. Two existing articles actually agree with this article. The Ebonhawke article states, "the fortress is the Ebon Vanguard's only remaining military presence in their former homeland." The article Human states, "The only other known human settlement is Ebonhawke, where the remains of the Ebon Vanguard stubbornly hold out against the Charr hordes." One other existing article seems to disagree. The Ascalon City article states, "Cut off from the Ebon Vanguard, with most of his men dead or dying, Adelbern committed one last act of defiance and called upon the powers of his sword, Magdaer to drive the Charr back. The magic raised the spirits of his fallen soldiers to drive the Charr from the ruins. During the following respite from Charr attacks the survivors fled south to Ebonhawke." Another article, The [[Battle of Ascalon City]] states, "the people of Ascalon were forced to desert their capital, travelling (sic) south to the fortress of Ebonhawke." The Ebon Vanguard were based in the Eye of the North. Therefore, the statement that King Adelbern was cut off from the Ebon Vanguard suggests that he was cut off from the Eye of the North. If he was cut off from the Ebon Vanguard while they were at Ebonhawke, how could the survivors of the Battle of Ascalon City have fled to the fortress? Perhaps the confusion arises from the fact that Ebon is a part of the name of the Ebon Vanguard and Ebonhawke. I am not certain that we actually yet know what Ascalonian military force holds the fortress of Ebonhawke as there is contradictory information in several places. Silmalel 00:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

The thought that the Ebon Vanguard is in charge of Ebonhawke is speculation, as far as I know, based on the name similarities which only goes as far as the word "ebon" - which is hardly a connection. I thought I removed it from every article, but I guess I missed many. -- Konig/talk 04:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

How many other "ebon" places do you know of? o.O --Amannelle 14:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree that it is complete and rather unjustified speculation to connect the Ebon Vanguard with the fortress of Ebonhawke, and that such speculation arises from "ebon" being a part of both names. I suppose I did not state that clearly enough above. The Ebon Vanguard at Ebonhawke makes little sense in light of the statements in the Ascalon City & [[Battle of Ascalon City]] articles (assuming they are correct). The Ebon Vanguard were an elite unit that operated behind enemy lines. They were not lingering in some backwater, rear echelon fortress in the south. Personally, I agree that this article should be deleted, but I did want to bring attention to the contradictory information found elsewhere on the GW2 wiki. Silmalel 21:14, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Good rewrite. Silmalel 02:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Notes

I'm not sure we even need to put the note there. At least if we have a note there, say that the people who think that are nuts because it is completely illogical (Yes, I think Vulcans are cool). The Fortress of Ebonhawke had to exist in King Adelbern's day (i.e. Guild Wars 1 era) because the survivors of the [[Battle of Ascalon City]] fled to the fortress after the battle (around 1100 A.E.). Therefore it could not have been founded after Jormag awoke, which was 50 years after Primordus awoke (he awoke two generations after 1078 A.E.). This places this time that Jormag awoke in-between the two Guild Wars game eras. The Ebon Vanguard could not have founded Ebonhawke after Jormag awoke (An exact date is unknown, but Jormag awoke 2 generations plus 50 years after 1078 A.E.). The Battle of Ascalon City and death of Adelbern would have happened long before Jormag's awakening. Silmalel 18:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I honestly don't know who is right and who is wrong, but it may be a little less confrontational to word it like this:

I am not sure we need to put the note there, for from my perspective it seems that it would be illogical for such an event to take place, and I personally feel that those who believe otherwise are a bit mistaken. Though it is understandable to make this mistake, I request that this note be either further postponed until we have moved beyond speculation and have solid facts, or be removed altogether. I personally find the theory implausible, for the Fortress of Ebonhawke had to exist in King Adelbern's day (i.e. Guild Wars 1 era) because the survivors of the [[Battle of Ascalon City]] fled to the fortress after the battle. Therefore, it could NOT have been founded after Jormag awoke, which was 50 years AFTER Primordus awoke, placing this time between the two Guild Wars game eras. If anyone knows of any event that could somehow affect this, or if there is some form of error in my deduction, I beseech for you to give correction, direction, and instruction whilst providing sources so as to let us rely on known facts without reliance on speculation.

I think it's wonderful how a few little words can make the mood change in such a way, and I encourage everyone to do such. It may take a bit longer, but it keeps everything polite, and will help keep from angering trolls lol :D --Amannelle 18:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a pretty HUGE step too far in sugar-coating a comment. Silmalel's comment was fine, yours is puffed and verbose with extraneous words and probably untrue sentiments. And all of this is off-topic :P. -- pling 20:43, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, it seems that the "two generations" line would be the same as "50 years" - only way it makes sense given the dates we have, unless GW2 is far more than 250 years after EN. That said, Jormag woke up 70 years after Ascalon fell. I kept the note there because I didn't think of the dates at the time and I didn't want to remove it completely as someone would just add it back later. I'll remove the founding part, but keep the fact that some speculate a connection between the two. The Ebon Vanguard could of, after all, headed south sooner. -- Konig/talk 21:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Something just came to me: Where's the source that people from the battle of Ascalon City fled south? I can't find any comment of that anywhere, as it seems, from official sources, that everyone at the battle died - meaning that there were ascalonians elsewhere who fled/were pushed south. If there actually were no survivors from the battle, then Silmael is incorrect and the Ebon Vanguard could of founded Ebonhawke - it's just that people couldn't have fled down to there directly after the battle. -- Konig/talk 21:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh lol, sorry Pling. xD I suppose it just shows my personality lol I personally felt that even what I wrote was a bit harsh. :P I was always taught to try to be as polite as possible regardless of whether it is online or off, so when I see random insults intermixed with responses I find them to be, well... unnecessarily harsh. xD maybe y'all have more "experience" and "exposure" to random insults online, but I (apparently) have a lot to learn. xD -- Amannelle 00:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Konig, the only ref. to the survivors fleeing south that I know of is from the article [[Battle of Ascalon City]]. And I wasn't intending to be confrontational. I certainly hope my posts have not come across that way. I wish nothing but happiness for all the trolls of the world. Of course, my logic can be overwhelming. ;-) I got the "two genereations plus 50 years after 1078 A.E." for Jormag's awakening from the articles on the GW2 wiki. It's basic math, like Duke > Carolina. Silmalel 01:52, 21 April 2010 (UTC)