Guild Chat - Episode 21
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Guild Chat - Episode 21
- Title
- Creatures
- Host
- Rubi Bayer
- Guests
- Ronald Kury
Brian Walter - Date
- November 6, 2015
- Official video
- YouTube
The following is an unofficial, player-written transcript of the episode. The accuracy of this transcription has not been verified by ArenaNet.
The 21st episode of Guild Chat aired on November 6, 2015.
"Host Rubi Bayer is joined by Creature Artist Ronald Kury and Animator Brian Walter to talk about the design and animation of creatures in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™. Discover the behind the scenes on Stoneheads, Gorseval and Pocket Raptors!"
Transcription[edit]
Below is the raw unformatted transcript from Youtube.
hi guys welcome back to guild chat i'm your host ruby and we have a couple of new guests on guild chat today we have two guys who we've not had on before so why don't we jump right in and thank you guys for joining i really really appreciate it because i think this is going to be a fun show today um i'd like you both to start and just let us know who you are and what you do for the company and you're sitting closest to me so you get picked on okay uh my name is brian walter i'm an animator here at arenanet i'm going to make all the creatures and stuff move thank you uh my name is ronald curry i'm a creature artist so i make all the monsters that you see running around awesome and you get to kill and fight and stuff and be smashed by yeah yeah all right so since we have all of these really cool new creatures running around the maguma jungle in heart of thorns i thought we would talk to these guys today and you are now responsible for representing the entire creature team no pressure no no this is why i clipped a mic tee so you can't run away i wanted to talk a little bit about the process of creating these guys because there's such a huge variety in there but they're all so distinct that it's kind of neat to talk about so from a layman's term where do you even begin i mean how do you begin to put here's some new dinosaurs here in the mordrem here are these mushroom guys where does the process start well the process actually is a big brainstorm of a lot of members of different teams we have designers we have concept artists we have uh creature artists and we try to come up with what the story is gonna where it's gonna lead us what the new world and environment is going to be and based on the environments we can we start constructing a creature and a fauna that lives in it so whatever adapts to the environment the best is where we go so that's where the mushroom guys come from because if we have a big jungle and we want to have something you know kind of related to it i guess all right so you've got this big brainstorm with all of these teams coming in and we know we already knew that mordremoth was a thing we knew where we were going we knew we were going into the muguma jungle so do you just start i mean like you mentioned to me earlier that the concept artists jump in and start they get to play and they get to have some fun do you start looking and seeing what appeals and what you think would fit yeah well the concept art is uh luckily we have one of the best concept artists in the industry i mean they're incredible so finding inspiration on anything that they do is just it's just a lucky position in which we're at they give us indirect concepts they don't necessarily give us full concepts sometimes they do sometimes they sit around and draw things for us and we don't take it too hard we look at what they have and let that inspiration move us in a specific direction sometimes they'll have elements that we're like oh look at that that looks incredible uh and sometimes we actually like look at something that they make and we're like oh that we're just gonna make that like we're not even going to change it that's just beautiful this is absolutely perfect but uh yeah it drives the feel of the game and it drives the feel of the creatures and that's what we are into a lot like making sure that it feels like the universe and the world that we're trying to build not just directly grab from nature it's like i'm going to make a camel you know like add a little little sense of guild wars into it camel's not confirmed before we even go there yeah no camels no we you're not going to find a cam wait a minute can we have a camel like rampaging through the maguma jungle because that would amuse me endlessly just the one and every once in a while you see him coming through yeah no easter egg basically yes yes exactly uh well the reason i said camel is because we were looking at uh the doliaks uh oh yeah and at first when i was trying to figure out what a doliak uh was because we were trying to make a desert doliak i was looking at camel references because what is a what what is the water but it runs in the desert it's uh i mean camo i knew it i tried to bring some elements of it but it ended up being much more of like a deer looking animal it's still kind of cool i mean it looks good i like it all right so we can kind of actually i'm going to have you check your mic box and make sure it's on because you're super super quiet or you could just like shout into our microphones we'll share with you it's just being very shy maybe that's totally okay better just talk directly into it all right but we solved the problem and i'm happy okay great so all right so generally creating it i i got a little bit of cheat studying beforehand in general the process can kind of be grouped under three umbrellas of modeling animation and skills is that best that's pretty good breaking it down as simple as possible yeah yeah absolutely this is like trying to break anyone's job down into yeah we'll just describe it in one word and it's totally fine so is how linear is the process i mean how much do you have people finishing one thing and handing it off versus you have all of these teams working together how much do you balance those two things well it's always different for each creature like sometimes ronald will have something that's just done and it's time to move on to it and sometimes we have a nice back and forth to be like oh it'd be cool if he could maybe look this way so that when i animate it it can do this thing yeah and then he can go back make some adjustments so it's always kind of a back and forth but you don't always have the time for complete back and forth so we should have leisure time all the time in the world nobody really wants to you know nobody's waiting to play with them yeah yeah so you should probably finish them up at some point it's actually the opposite we can't wait to play with them like when we create things uh we sculpt them really quickly we get like a big rough of the shapes and we automatically want it to be in game so we like we do this process which is called dynamesh i don't know if you guys know about z-rush you just kind of reduce all the amount of polygons in a very very uh algorithmic way uh and you put it in the game with a you know just a blue model so you can see it moving and you apply it to a very quick rig and then the animators can start playing with it and then you get the feeling of what the pose is going to be and and then you get all the feedback of like oh let's make the the arms bigger or the legs longer or you know some stuff doesn't really line up and yeah well seeing it in action probably makes an enormous difference yeah um you mentioned riggs and we had talked about that beforehand as far as and i just really love the description that you gave as far as the puppet and strings oh yeah so so uh years ago i actually came up with some explanation for kids that i was teaching and the way that it's easier easiest to understand uh when it comes to creatures and characters you have uh if you think about a puppet the model is the puppet actual physical puppet that you have somebody that comes and sculpts it and paints it and models and makes it all pretty the rigger is the one that creates the strings that connect the puppet and then the animator is the one that becomes a puppeteer that animates and brings it to life so that's the different distinction uh of the three main parts of bringing a character to life so the animator like has all the power is what i'm hearing here you're the puppet master yeah basically i get it control what it does can we change your title to puppet master because in light of everything i mean it is a digital puppet i mean it is kind of just a sock puppet just in a computer very fancy sock puppet see how it moves um so we had talked about the rigging on some of these creatures you were telling me about the mushroom guys because this sounds terrible because they have murdered my face so many times they're ridiculously cute i'm sorry they're adorable when they are murdering me and that was one where we used a rig we already had an existence yeah so since we do have making rigs and all that stuff is a lot of work we try to share when we can so the mushroom guys are actually on the scri rig and it allows us to borrow animations and then we can make adjustments and make them unique for certain attacks and stuff but it allows you to have a rig already made with animations already attached to that character and then you get to make unique ones so you have more time to make more stuff yeah you can if you've got something that you already have in hand it just kind of slims down that part of the workload yeah so what defines what helps you decide okay i already have a rig that i can use for this thing that i'm building versus we need to create a new one that's a very tricky it's kind of a big question so when we started working on uh heart of thorns we had a budget of how many creatures we wanted and then how many creatures we could do based on creatures that we already had and creatures that we could start from scratch meaning you have a new skeleton and a new rig and a new model and new proportions new animations and it's a lot of work as you can imagine so we try not to shoot ourselves in the foot and do stuff if we can expand from that point we do but uh we like to be much more in line with what we can do what we know we can do when it's something that's really different and unique that we know we're going to need something new for it to really sell the personality of this new creature that's when we'll usually go about and make a whole new rig and have a whole new silhouette yeah and a whole new actually that drives it a lot too like silhouettes in motion if you have something that is proportionately completely different from something that you have in the game even though something might have some of the animations uh if you're adding a lot to it just might as well make a new rig so what's one that warranted a new rig am i allowed to ask um yeah i mean the waverings were the biggest wavering wyvern they're the biggest uh i think it's i don't know no matter what you say someone's gonna say that you're wrong so you could just make something up if you wanted so on the creature team we actually have somebody uh kate shout out she is uh our encyclopedia living encyclopedia of creatures so whenever you have any questions regarding the the precedence of precedence uh english is breaking like the pronunciation uh well no like where a creature comes from the mythology behind it like she will come like she will just appear next to you and be like actually and then she gives you the whole background it's awesome because we're always learning stuff oh my gosh it's really really really really really exciting basically yeah all right so for our purposes we can say wyvern okay yeah we can say wagon go ahead tell me i'm wrong all right so that one needed a totally yeah i can't think of anything that's even vaguely shaped like that yeah we never really had anything in that proportion or that moved in that way and so it needed a whole new rig and to stand out as a new addition to the guild wars universe yeah i think it was totally worth it yeah an opposite example we have the uh the little cave bats that run around they're actually using an existing rig which is the dogleg crawler but we actually had to add animations to it because you know it's flying and jumping and doing things so that makes it a lot easier because you can set proportions rather quickly and then just add animations on top too wow thanks and we get something that looks completely different this is something that we've been doing a lot that's really cool so you can work with that foundation that you already have and still and it's not just yeah it's this thing but now it's blue instead of orange yeah exactly or like when you look at humanoid creatures you don't necessarily need to make uh another humanoid like we already have different scales and proportions for different like if you grab a male and a female they're just totally different you just add some animations to it but the proportions the bodily proportions are just gonna give you what you want that's awesome all right so do you want to show off what you've been working on a little bit all right let's start with oh this guy so this is the stonehead t-rex this is a attack animation i did for him he had a previous attack that after testing it wasn't really reading how he wanted so i wanted him to he does this attack and it throws like a bunch of brush forward and knocks you over and stuff and so i added in this flip to really sell the idea that it's propelling stuff forward at the player um and it was just really fun oh yeah yeah there's a lot of that in the tail that you can see all right and his his role i we've already talked about how i have a problem with rolling creatures that completely smashed me flat into the ground yeah the dino uh roller guy the arrowhead yeah arrowhead oh my gosh all right so what's this one um this guy is a boss you'll fight up in the canopy it's one of the um he does this attack where he gets launched at you and does these dagger strikes so i'm assuming this is pretty early on in the process yeah what you're looking at is because it does look a lot cooler yeah it's the maya production like when we animate we turn up a lot of things so it's easier for us to to work on it in real time and so this is just a preview straight preview out of maya so when you when you do this what are you looking for what is this helping you with there's just one step and here's what it looks like and now we're going to make it look prettier yeah this was kind of yeah just selling the idea of what we were going for getting a visual representation and seeing if it's something we wanted to go forward with nice i'm going to look at that one a lot differently in the future uh this guy yeah and this is another guy in that fight yeah yeah i did the animations for this guy where he does these big swings as he walks across the platform knocking you around and stuff very cool all right so that's kind of the general animation how about some more specific guys brain brain bug brain bug yes that is a horrible name i think i'm trying to reject it from my mind it was actually a lot of fun to look at being animated because once you look at the model it's like the solid big chunk but once it starts to animate you see this gooey like goopy thing that's just like crawling you're not selling this to me at all oh my god it's so cool it's so cool i mean all the props to the animators i mean brian's puppet master puppet mastery is what brings everything to life well i'm only one of many great puppet masters on the team so awesome so yeah we do have this we've got this just big globby guy but the closer you look the more is going on and i've noticed that a lot of stuff we're going to look at today yeah once once you see it in the game and there's all these effects and animations and you're running around like there's a lot of little details that you know you don't get to notice but if you stop and look like they're beautifully animated and they're they really are it's kind of hard to be able to stop and look but yeah especially if it's coming at you if it's coming at you yeah you know you have time while you're trying to recover from the kd and just go in there so does he start when you i mean when you're watching him dig into the ground and everything how much are you tweaking his animations as you go are you just okay this looks too stiff this looks like too much of just like a one-piece blob or d do the bones of the thing allow it to naturally move this way anyway um yeah i mean that's when we build the rig we make sure we can move the pieces on the creature we want to move so like those jelly sacks on his back we make sure that i can't they have a control there so that we can actually animate them and get the feeling we want and the grossness that we may want i have to say you did well you did very well let's go a little bit bigger let's see who do we have next do we have i think with dino writer there we go oh this guy yes so the dino uh do you know who did this model this was done by marcus jackson oh it's one of our cool creature artists i love this model and this was animated by scott dickey most of the dyno writer and he does some awesome work so this was like when you do enough damage to him the guy gets knocked off so this is the newer revision we had one that was in game it wasn't really reading as well it took a little too long so this he kind of took another stab at it for the gameplay purposes and came with this quicker just knock the guy off feel yeah move on so previously you just had he needed to be knocked off when he lost enough health yeah and it was just taking a bit so you had to slim that animation down and make it a little bit quicker so when you were talking about the creation the conception of these creatures you were asking about how much feedback do we get and how much do we go back and forth uh that was actually a design decision because once you started playing um it just took too long for it to on the first time even though it was awesome we love to have fun and we add things left and right but some of it has to be sacrificed for gameplay and the experience is what we're focused on the most despite of how cool the world can be and all that stuff uh game plays first yeah so while it might look amazing bigger animations like might look amazing in the videos well we're just sitting here in our chairs being comfy and watching them if you have to wait too long for it you just yeah you don't want to wait too long for it like two or three we didn't really talk about the specifics of the time on other bigger animations but two or three seconds in combat is enormous i mean that's a big deal and if you're having to sit here and wait two or three seconds for this guy to do his thing it's time to trim it down yeah which is sometimes a shame so the interesting thing to me i'm sorry oh i was just gonna kind of explain what this animation was because it might look a little weird to people who um seeing it all choppy so this is kind of a process animation this is what i first get in i get in the key poses um to sell what i need them to do and this is an animation for the the flame variant of the dyno rider where he uh breathes a fan of flame out to the players and so i just kind of block in the key poses selling what it needs to do and then from there you can get the vibe and the feel and then that allows me to then go in and polish and make it smooth what you see in game so the thing about the dyno riders that were was interesting to me is that this is a single creature this isn't like hey we built this mordrem and then we gave them mounts this is one thing right yeah i'm sorry guys why did you you ruined everything oh dude i didn't catch him falling on his falling on his rider so for animation purposes essentially this thing is just throwing off a piece of itself yeah oh wow whose idea was it to have him fall on the fall on his writer because that's just insult to injury there yeah that was probably the animator scott dickey's idea thank you scott i like it the more i look at it just that is the absolute best oh yeah so i don't i'm just i'm coming up with things like the more i look at these the more i'm like you've gotten it down to there's like this little bounce after he lands because it's a big fleshy creature and you need to convey that and you've done it really well if i can gush for like two seconds and then we'll move on i like it well that's kind of where that planning i showed comes in handy you get the gist of what you need to do and then the finer details like that bounce and the settle that's when you can go in and add that later and polish and really make it stand out yeah all right can we go bigger i want to see more bigger things i mean that's pretty it's big two for one hi kim hey that is terrifying all right so what is i don't even know where to start how did you even begin the brighton yeah um so this model was actually a combination of two character artists this is uh our lead character artist jim did the body when he worked on vine tooth and then this version this variant was done by marcus again margaret jackson and it's it went through some iterations it was there were so many ideas of how to make the the the creature convey the personality that we wanted you know the the female coming at the top yeah and yeah it was a it was a really awesome awesome experience watching these guys work on this is pretty awesome i notice there's it still feels like there's musculature going on in there like when she rears up and there's like this little quiver on the back legs before she goes down it's not just okay here's this thing made out of some sticks that we found no no no the anime just put a lot of thought and love into these things and do you do you guys like hacked it out i mean you guys pretend i'm going oh please some animators do it more than others but yeah you'll you'll usually see animators at their desks doing like kind of figuring out a pose or a swing or some weird acting out i've seen a couple of those past like the corner of my eye somebody's just like oh yeah that's really cool i am sitting in the wrong part of the building you guys seriously because what i initially pictured was somebody in the hallway doing this doing exactly this down the hallway like stomping down that'd make me happy if that could if that could happen so yeah i'm i'm still going back and looking this is still a like a live creature and not just a bundle of trees yeah yeah i mean that goes to the models as well how they really sculpt the characters to have that muscle definition that we as animators that need to use to make them move so i'm reading one of these questions what if the creatures hit on the left side would the animation be mirrored to better reflect the impact on the steeling blow sometimes we we actually do have uh directional impact animations but i don't think we do that much do we no i mean the biggest ones we have are like the push back and go forward kind of stuff yeah and it's because you're usually being hit by every single side yeah that's what's hard in our game is there's so many players all attacking one guy so picking up which direction you want to react when everyone's attacking you it's tricky so you don't want to break the illusion too much and go into like crazy pin ping pong ball yeah back and forth in a tiny space yeah so all these animations are it's are what it's called canned animations so you have them as it is and they're presented at the moment where it needs to be played so when they die they don't go into physics and like you know ragdoll and they yeah die and they're dead which is cool because it actually becomes much more personal we can convey a little bit more of the characters to their death and then they're not just like wet popping around yeah now okay now we're done fall down you're finished yeah it takes a little bit more so you know what i want bigger bigger yeah let's go bigger stavemaster oh there we go all right tell me about this one because we've seen it before we had leah hoyer in here a few weeks back and we talked about the lore behind the character but now we're seeing how how it works so uh as i was mentioning earlier um sometimes we get support from concept sometimes uh we take some ideas and we move with that in mind and do something else this is the complete opposite this is based of a drawing by a cardinaline a phenomenal concept artist uh and this was actually handed to me and i saw the drawing and i was like you know what there's nothing i need to change from this this is just beautiful this is just awesome so i try to be as loyal as i could with the model um i don't know if you can tell the arms that are wrapping around and hold it's super scary i don't know you people see that in game uh but like working on it was just so so cool yeah it's it's a thing that i try to take time to anticipate and look at instead of just rushing in and beating on things or vice versa or being beaten well sometimes like that sense of wonder gets over overpowered by the sense of threat yes it's coming at me a sense of death well this is a character that ronald and i both worked on together he did the model for it and then when i got to the animations he kind of told me the story behind the character and what he was envisioning and there was this creepy character so i kind of did a bunch of creepy walk cycle and run cycle and conveyed that through the animation to match what he had modeled out oh wow and again another one of those examples of using an existing rig this is using the female human i think it's a female norn since it is a larger character yeah so we get to use the skeleton that is already there but you don't see humans doing that walk yeah so we get to add all these extra animations on it to convey the character it sounds it's so much more than just a straight copy paste it's not okay yeah this is a norn with different skin no no no there's a lot of work that goes into it yeah that's not a thing that you've seen from norn what is that that's her idol animations when right before she's about to kill you just preparing to come in and murder my face that's fantastic all right so i love it but i want more all right i went i went bigger well ask him bigger yep this is a working baby oh my my personal oh yeah this is a work in progress uh early model um the reason why we have this one is because we wanted to show one of the details that it's not picked up on as much as the fact that um gorsuch is made of arms it's made of hands just making the creature so this is you can tell that the arm has not been touched as much but as you work your way down you can see the torso and the rib cage is just arms hugging and so i want to interrupt you to emphasize gerseval if you don't know gorsuval is a raid boss that we are bringing in very very soon gorsuval is made of arms well they're recently the reason why it's made of arms is because it's under the mythology it's made of the souls of the people that were trapped inside disclaimer and secrets and whatever so when the souls break free it forms this creature made of anger and souls and so i didn't want to make just ghosts and sheets kind of hugging it kind of had to have that sense of different people coming together so yeah that's where the idea came from infinitely creepier once i start realizing there's like all of these arms and hands just in there so where can we sit where can you see it best in this particular where should we be looking because there's a lot going on yeah if you look at the torso you can see all the arms just kind of hanging around just there it's it's hard to determine that those are actually hands but yeah they are and they were fun to work on yeah that was actually a lot of fun i loved it but it's a lot of work i was going to say did it take so much longer i mean and you know i mean it's gorseval it's tongue boss guy i didn't want to make something generic and you know something that we've seen before another dragon so the reason why those are you see them being spikey is because they have physics and in maya their physics are not applied directly that's in an engine so that animation might look weird although at the end of physics the physicality of it's pretty awesome um yeah i didn't want to make something clean let's put it that way too clean i wanted to have a little bit of a disturbing you know feel to it uh so yeah yeah just a random whatever you know sleek and pretty is not going to cut it for something yeah this big and terrifying so the the tentacles that flow in the back were actually added uh as a constraint and we didn't know whether we could do it or not so it was just me playing around with physics and understanding how all that stuff worked uh i don't usually play with riggs but i was lucky enough that i was able to figure some of that stuff out oh there we go oh now we're talking that's what you'll see so we have the long tentacles kind of flowing we have the little tentacles i don't know if you can see they're just little ones that come off the side yeah they also wobble a lot and then i was like how can i make this creepier and so that's how the face turned out to be with gooey tongues just that mostly just makes me like want a towel to get all of the gorse of all spit off the top of my head one of the original concepts that i had when he was just idling i had him with the tongs kind of like dangling and then the player underneath just staring up at the times this is going to be so much fun that's disgusting all right so he's just arms and tongues and there's almost like the spinal cord look yeah going on the tentacles have that spinal feel to it and you can see some of the spine going back and those those blobs if you come close enough i don't know if we can tell those are souls yeah we can they're sort of souls uh swimming inside him we'll have to maybe talk about the lore behind gorseval at some point in the near future all right so and teeth this is just all i mean you know we've we've talked a lot we've joked about gerseval the many tongued but there's a lot more going on here yeah yeah yeah so how did you you've got like the big spiny shield bone thing right behind his head is that just because it looks cool or was there more there uh it's mostly because it looks because it seems see i'm going to give you an out now it seems like it could be a good protective thing for that little it could very well be i mean a lot of good designs come with uh the physicality and the the anatomical accuracy of what it's there for what's the purpose of this sometimes you most times we want to go in that direction sometimes we just want to make things cool because you know whatever you visually if something is right but it doesn't look right it's just not right yeah versus if something uh is not necessarily right but it looks right then it just is that's the way we accept reality which is it's interesting that we work that way um the the head the sign actually came from jim we actually had some several different iterations of where we were going and then he came up with that specific head the direction and we're like oh yeah that looks awesome that frames the face it frames the character brings attention to the top and so we're trying to lead the viewer's eye into specific directions so you can see that the colors kind of fade into where the head is yeah it does it does draw the eye up that way so we think of art the art of rather than just plainly the functional side of yeah and then based on that like animators can look at the functionality and we'll see that that head shape and be like oh yeah maybe he could use this as a shield or a protective thing so the more clearly defined our creatures are it also helps us make the anime the creatures move how they should and naturally act like actual creatures instead of just perhaps sock puppets yeah yeah like the uh we haven't shown them here but we have those uh worms what do we call the those good they have the spikes yeah the more drum breachers yeah the more dramatic like oh the bridgers yeah so i i actually worked on one of those as well uh but uh we have them that they have those huge spikes in the front yeah and that actually drove the animations to have them attack you with those things so they actually really dig their head into the ground trying to yeah i know but so i am aware so when when it comes to the sign they have a a list of animations that they want to do or a list of attacks that they they want to add but those attacks are not finalized until the creature is it's done and it's a process that just keeps going and sometimes we change or we add or whatever it is sometimes just the model itself will drive what the animation or the attack itself will be yeah i always say the animators are like the sandwich they're the middle between the art side and the design side because you gotta have the gameplay and the designers want one thing and the artists create this cool thing and then i have to like look at the art make it work and look at what the design wants and make it attack how it needs to so all right that answer is a question i had about how do you mesh all of these things because you have a certain amount of lore behind certain creatures you have the way they look and you have all of these skills that they need to have and that seems like it would you manage to make it work but i was just looking at everything that needed to match up and everything that needed to work going i can't i don't i don't know i don't know yeah where do you start yeah that's the the where you start is the hard part where do you draw the inspiration sometimes you let the lord write inspiration for example creature made of souls what is that yeah and so you can just be completely literal and make like a big you know cloud of souls or you know see where the ideas kind of lead you and then just process yeah i want like the big floating sheet like the mini pet that we have and actually speaking of many pets there's one last creature that i want to talk about because everybody loves them and loves to hate them oh yeah i love pocket wraps yes they are awesome because this is the opposite of you have you have like gorsuval who's enormous and you had a lot of room to work and a lot of room to play and pocket raptors are totally the opposite i mean there's just not a lot going on there that you can work with how did they but gameplay design is what drives them makes them so cool yeah they have the little pack of things jumping at you and yeah i'm aware again i know so in terms of like the animation side to pocket raptors the the design is to have a lot of them and they're small so the animation details aren't as important since they are so small and since there's so many of them there's less animation detail we can add into them yeah so they're a more simpler creature to allow for the design to work and play so there's a good there too yeah yeah they almost feel because there's not a lot of room to work there i was thinking that it almost feels like their darts being thrown at you because they just lunge through the air um and something that i was telling these guys i did yesterday just to kind of get a good feel for some of these creatures i i did like the chidi dev hack thing i was on our dev client and i made myself invisible and then i like went up to a pocket raptor and zoomed way in and i was just circling getting a really good look at him and marveling that this is the only time i'm ever going to get to do this but i can't help i couldn't help but notice he's not just like a cardboard cutout sitting there i mean he had movement and fluidity and even with this tiny little thing where there's just like it's almost just like a mini pet yeah and many pets not confirmed i have to keep saying this yeah disclaimer but even even then when there's just this tiny little thing you were able to do a lot with it which was kind of cool so if you can if you can stealth up your character somehow and just get in there and peek at one it's pretty neat to look at them yeah so well thank you guys very very much i appreciate you coming on to talk to us about all of these cool new things that you made and now we know that the mushroom guys are script in disguise this is what they've done with their gathered intelligence has become mushrooms i don't think that's how animation actually works i've learned nothing apparently no it was really informative and i appreciate you guys taking your time so sure yeah and thank you guys for hanging out with us thanks for joining us yep we will see you guys next week bye